Joining me on the show today is Tai Adaya, Founder of Habit Skin.
The company that’s telling you the anti-aging truth around sunscreen. Habit is solving the annoying problems we have with sunscreen by innovating with SPF formulas and changing consumer behaviour.
Launched during the pandemic, Tai shares exactly what it takes to get a small business off the ground, how long it took to develop her products and find the right manufacturer, a winning strategy that generated thousands of people signing up to her email database and a few bits and pieces about the skincare industry you might not know about.
Please note, this transcript has been copy pasted without the lovely touch of a human editor. Please expect some typos!
Yes, my name is Tai Adaya, I'm the founder of Habit, Habit is reimagining the sun care categories. So we're developing sunscreens um and really innovating on form factor, texture and scent. And the brand is really creating a new narrative around sun care as a category. We're bringing out the health aspects and the anti aging aspects of sunscreen and really building a narrative around those aspects that are brand, It's amazing and it's so important and something that like I feel like I've like gone the last 10 years without focusing on that and now I'm like Oh my God, sunscreen, I need to wear this every single day.
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What have I been doing with my life. It's so, so important and especially if you're going to be someone when you're older that's going to care about the signs of aging. It's very, very important to start young and that's really where I saw the white space and the opportunity to build a brand around that. Yeah, So true, So true. I feel like they're on any cool options that are like to go to, you know, even for things like smell and texture like it all seems really same. Same. Yes. Yes especially in the US we have like Coppertone and banana boat and it's like very like outdoor beach focus products that um we're not like the nice go to products that you want to reach for on a daily basis totally, totally. Well I want to go back to the beginning. I know you've recently launched but I want to talk about your life before habit, what you were doing and what inspired you to get into some sun something and sounds green. Yes. Yeah so um I have had a long career mainly working at e.
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Commerce startups and so I've had a lot of experience working um with consumer products specifically. Um I did a little bit of health care so I worked at Good Rx which is a health care startup based in L. A. Um startup based on prescription drugs and price transparency. I worked at Casper, the mattress startup and so a deep dive into just like how do you sell a consumer product online? Um And then I worked at a color cosmetics brand called el massaged. Um It's an Israeli brand, I did the U. S. Brand launch with a big focus on E. Commerce and I have had a ton of experience selling things online and I I always wanted to do something on my own. My dad is an entrepreneur and I kind of grew up seeing that um And so I always knew I wanted to do it eventually, and I wanted to basically take the things that I had been drawn to before, and the things that I loved and combine them into habit, and so I, uh I feel like some care really does sit at the edge of beauty and health and I love that it has both of those aspects, and so I know I was just drawn to the category and I really felt that there was an opportunity to create something new and develop something that people would love and really kind of just approach it from a different perspective, totally, totally was there like a light bulb moment where you're like, this is definitely it, or was it more like, you know, different events culminating and like coming together and yeah, so it's kind of been like this thing, so like the true true story is my two best friends from college, when we were like 1920 we started talking about Botox, and so we, You know, even as 19 year olds, we knew that when we started to get older, we were really going to care about are appearances and so, we you know.
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I think Botox was not as talked about widely then, but we talked about it and we were like, okay, let's, you know, start getting Botox when we're 25 we like made a pact that we would all start 25 as 19 year olds, um And so I didn't start at 25, but I started at 27 and I ended up broke the pact, but I ended up spending in the first year over $1000 on preventative Botox and basically just like the little area like on the top of my forehead to prevent the vertical lines. And so uh yeah, it was a lot of money to spend at 27. And I started to go on this journey to really figure out what works in terms of anti aging and being able to prevent those signs. And I started to interview a bunch of dermatologists and I started to read a lot of papers on the NIH the National Health Institutes database, They have a lot of really good free papers that you can read on there.
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And I just started to like see the research and it was one study that I saw that showed the efficacy of laser versus Botox versus using sunscreen preventatively and like far and away using sunscreen preventatively is the best way to prevent skin aging. And that for me was the moment, I think I knew that like no one was really talking about it in that way and I was like, okay, there's a big opportunity here, wow, that's so crazy. I definitely didn't know that. And I feel like, you know, in those last few years where I've really started to care about my skin care and care about my routine and stuff. Those are the kinds of things that I'm thinking about. I'm like, well what do I do? What is more preventative skincare? And you think that you have to go out and spend so much money and you need an expert and you need this And that one actually the solution is really simple. It's put on sunscreen every day. Yeah, I think it's a bit of a generational thing. So I'm 30 right now and that was my concept of anti aging.
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I think throughout my twenties it was like you have to go towards the expensive, invasive thing. But a big inspiration for me was I'm very preventative when it comes to nutrition. I'm very preventative when it comes to working out and fitness. And I realized that I was not being really truly preventative when it came to my skin care, I was going to things that are more geared at fixing problems rather than preventing them. And so I think that happens to a lot of women that are millennial gen z like they've just been so exposed to Botox and fillers and that is their concept of anti aging. Yeah, it's so crazy. I've really, it's really interesting because I've never really thought of it as as that is taking that approach. Yeah, really cool. What does one do to start a skincare sunscreen brand? How do you begin? Yes, there is a little different. This also is what drew me to the category in the US. It is considered an over the counter drug. So it's not purely a cosmetic.
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I think a lot of people actually see the category and think that that adds unnecessary complexity. Get afraid I was drawn to that. I loved that there was that aspect of regulation. And unlike cosmetics the claims that you make against the sun care product have to be real because the US FDA has purview into that and I actually regulate the market. And so the hardest part about starting habit was finding a god um lab and manufacturing partner that would be able to help me create my products. And so that was the hardest part because I was literally cold calling and cold emailing manufacturers and no one really wants to work with a small player. And so I spent a lot of time just searching them searching for manufacturers and like on google or something. Yeah on google using databases. So um for over the counter drugs since they are federally regulated there is actually like a lot of good resources.
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And so I basically did a bunch of backwards tracing through some of the and I. H. Databases. Uh we found a manufacturer um but yeah like I did a lot of backwards searching and um specifically like to make sunscreen you have to work with a manufacturer that's otc compliant. And so that's a special license that they get from the FDA to be able to produce over the counter products. And so I used the fact that they have to register those licenses to do some of those backwards tracing and I talked to a bunch of them and you know, I was just a lone person basically, you know, trying to contact these manufacturers and I eventually found one that was willing to take the risk with me and that was for sure the hardest part. And then um from there we developed and started developing, what kind of questions did they ask? Like what did they want to see from you to be able to take you on? And like was it a commitment financially or was it a commitment in terms of just, you know, passion or yeah, so I presented to them my view of how it was going to approach the market and I would say that they specifically have worked in the past few years with a couple of brands that have taken off and so as a manufacturer, they, they like to bring in a couple of new brands a year.
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And so that was an attitude that I appreciate that they had. Um and yeah, I basically was like, I'm trying to work in sun care, but I'm going to talk about anti aging and I don't think anyone is really talking about anti aging. And so they were drawn to that perspective of it. But yeah, they were kind of like my first pitch um, to the manufacturing. It was really kind of like how are we going to tell the narrative around this category, how are we going to approach product development in a new way? And yeah they like I think they have it institutionalized that they do take a couple a couple of bets. I'm probably not going to be profitable for them for a while. I really do appreciate them as a partner. And in those early conversations did you have to negotiate smaller minimum order quantities and a smaller batch or did you have to basically jump in and order you know thousands of bottles? Yeah so I did end up having to do a pretty big first order. Um I did 5000 for the first quarter.
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So with sun care like it is they're a little bit more strict with regulations and so because they're having to kind of invest all of that so they like have a person on the team that directly liaises with the F. D. A. Because you have to pass those tests and so I did have to like plan for doing a bigger first order just because it's like not super worth it for them to be doing tiny quantities. Um What I did convince them to do is before we had passed our FDA testing I started to basically waiver people and have them test the product and so from that like to do that we were doing some small batches that enabled testing and that was kind of the compromise there. Um and then once we passed the testing, I did my first order of 5000, wow, that must have been such an exciting moment to be like okay let's hit the button, I'm really doing this, this is gonna be my business and my thing, there was a lot of false starts uh so like yeah you know I went out to my manufacturer for the first fill for the first production in Phil and like again just like with things that are considered drugs, everything has to be super super exact and so I flew out there to be there for the first Phil and we realized that an ingredient didn't match up exactly to what we had used in the batch like the smaller batches and so that ingredient had to be ordered um And again it's like an FDA thing where it's like if you test a certain formula, like the formula has to be, you have to produce what you tested including down to the ingredients and where they're sourced from.
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And so that was a false start. So we ended up having to like scrap that day and uh just like you know wait for the ingredients to come and still on another day. That is so crazy how long did that process take from when you kind of met the manufacturer and decided okay let's start sampling together too, You know getting that first batch of 5000. Yeah, so my initial, I initially thought of the idea for a habit and probably like August 2018 and it took me a good six months to find the right manufacturing partner. I did start down the path with another manufacturer that just didn't really work and then found my manufacturer that I'm working with currently. So that actually I always tell people that took longer than actually formulating um and longer than you probably expected. Oh, for sure, for sure. And then when uh like I love the chemist that I work with, um she's my age and she kind of Just gets what I'm trying to do, what we're trying to do.
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And so um once we started, I wanted to do a missed for our first products, our first product is number 41, it's an SPF missed. Um it's very minimal, very clean, it's only 16 ingredients, whereas most sunscreens have 30 plus. I really kind of just wanted to pare it down and make a really pure clean sunscreen product. So I like wrote a brief against the product that I wanted to build. That was definitely more on the like non technical side. So I wanted to talk about how we would take the product market the claims that I wanted to make, how we would package it, how would look and feel um once I took that brief to start working with her chemist, she helped me kind of like fill out the technical aspects of it, but I think by that time, like it felt, it felt good, like I felt like we were moving and that started to move a lot faster. So that took around three months. The FDA testing took another three months. But while we were waiting for the FDA testing to come back, we were um, like I mentioned, we like wavered people and started testing with, with actual, uh, real consumers.
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Oh my gosh, that's so amazing. And then what I'm also wondering is like, how did you fund the business? Was it personal savings? Was it a lot of capital that you needed to hire someone to create a formula or formulation? So I've been, so I was bootstrapping it at the beginning at first, basically through savings. And then I did a small round of basically friends, family and I have uh, one institutional investor that does like super, super early stage because when I pitched them, I was super, super, like didn't have a formula stage. Um, and so that's kind of how I've been funding it, but I've definitely been like funding it as the need comes. So when I was looking for manufacturers was basically just on my own, like super bootstrapping it, I worked out a deal with my manufacturer where I was not paying for the development but had committed to the, to the number of units that I would buy and basically when I was ready to start going to market and while the FDA testing was finishing, I raised money from the institutional fund.
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Amazing. Yeah. I think it's it's tricky because sometimes you don't know whether like you should invest all of your personal savings or if you should go and get a loan from the bank or you know what you should do. So it's always interesting to hear how other people have done it, especially in the very early phases of getting started. Yes. Yeah. I mean I I think that it's kind of a personal decision. Like I ended up, you know, I ended up taking money from a VC and so I'm on that path an hour, You know, that is a certain path and there are student expectations with taking bunch of capital and you know, raising subsequent rounds. Um, but I, for me, I I feel very strongly about this uncanny category and I feel like it's going to grow. And so that trajectory, I felt aligned with venture capital and so that was the round I decided to take and like, honestly, like I also just didn't know how to go and get bank loans. I had friends, I have friends that went that route and I basically like got advice from them on how to approach investors and how to kind of structure my pitch in a way that would be attractive to venture capital.
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Do you have any tips or learnings that you think other women should know when going into those meetings or or when trying to find A V. C. Yes. So I always say like and I'm still doing it so like we're going to raise another round soon. Um It is extremely tough. I think that I had heard the statistics about being a woman and raising capital and then but you hear them and you kind of don't like internalize that. That's true and then you go out there and it's like oh it really is true that it is that tough. Um And so I would say it's good to know what you're getting yourself into. I think again like us based I think 2% of venture capital goes to women and then if you look at non white women I think it's like 20.2% and so it is good to just like no like that's not right, it's definitely not right. But that is kind of that is that world. And so for me the biggest thing was I would take every rejection so personally and I had to really learn how to surround myself with friends and advisers that could pick me up when I was feeling down.
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And I also tried to depersonalize, I was like okay well you know women just don't get as much investment and that is the context of this world and I should not take it so personally. Um And so I kind of just kept having to mentally tell myself that over and over again and you know starting a business is an endurance, it's an endurance game and so you have to learn how to not let like every single rejection get you down and just like basically I think you get better over time at finding the type of investors that work and like I think a quick like tactical tip is like definitely find investors that look like you. Um it was so different pitching habit to women investors versus men. Um Men kind of automatically saw this as beauty and didn't didn't like totally get it and when I pitched women investors, I think there was just more of a baseline understanding and so I would say like as you're thinking about who to approach for those first meetings like try and pick people up that look like you.
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Yeah. So true. So true. What I also find is so funny is that the data shows that for every dollar invested into a female led business, it actually generates more than twice the amount of revenue than it does if you invest a dollar into a male led business. So the opportunity for women led businesses are so huge. I it makes no sense like there should be more investment into women. Like the statistics are there to back up that the performance is there and that the returns are there. I think what ends up happening is just like most investors are men and they go to what feels familiar a lot of investment happens with, um, like a lot of entrepreneurs that raise VC are already coming from very like wealthy and privileged families and I think those are, they were considered less risky bets. And so it's this like kind of incestuous circle where you're kind of like in the club or you're not. And I feel like women so often get excluded from that club and it is unfortunate and you know like part of why I am doing habit, why I kind of went up throughout for, uh, for fun because I want to prove it's possible.
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Like I know the thoughts are against me but I, I want to show that it can be done and I kind of, I want to do it just to prove that I can. Yeah. And you will and you are amazing. It's amazing. I love to talk about the marketing side of things and I know you're so in it at the moment because you launched recently. So I want to jump into your go to market strategy. What did you do to prepare? Like was there a pre launch? What's happening? And how did you launch? Yes. Um, so I will say that we launched in 2020. And so the pandemic has definitely played into a lot of how he launched, I think for like for the better and for worse. So I started testing our product before it was approved with a group of people and we took that group of testers and we really started to build a community out of that group. I, you know, I raised money, but it's not a lot, I'm being very, very scrappy with our marketing and trying to go for the things that really feel word of mouth, authentic.
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Um and again, like taking a super, super scrappy approach with everything and so our go to market were originally supposed to launch in March 2020 pandemic upended things. Um we delayed indefinitely When it's set in that this was the new reality, we wanted to get some of the summer months because we are in some care and there's a lot of natural interest in some care when it's summer. Um and so we ended up launching in June of 2020 And the pillar of our marketing has been our community. So we had the initial 40 testers of the product and we basically grew that primarily through instagram some tiktok, um but we built a community of people that are interested in skincare sunscreen and especially like during the pandemic, we kind of found that since everyone was trapped at home, it was a little easier to build the community because people wanted to just find people to connect with.
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And so that like from that perspective, it was great to create a community in which people could feel a little less isolated, even though it was just like, you know, online interactions. And so we really relied on that community at launch. I launched with a two week free period. So we gave everyone in the community, in our community of code um in which they could share to their audiences and communities the code for the first bottle free. Oh my gosh, cool. We were really able to use that as our marketing um and then once we started to, like, really get, it was so cool, so cool, seeing like habit in people's hands after working on it for so long, and we started to be everywhere, especially online, and then after we started to like, really be everywhere, we started to get some press pick up as well, and that was really, really useful to kind of get exposure to new audiences and really introduce the brand in a big way. And so we had a lot of features through the summer, um and that was really kind of cool and hard to believe, like we were featured in vogue in july and that was a crazy day because there were so many people on the site.
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And so yeah, we're building it up that way. We are super young brand in terms of marketing, we're really trying to be super experimental with everything we do. Um it is very, very important for brands nowadays too, not only experiment, but have a good framework for understanding how to measure those experiments against each other. And so we're taking that approach. We're doing a lot online. We did a little many out of home campaign in new york at the end of the summer and we will continue to experiment with different marketing tactics and continue to evolve our marketing mix. Yes, for sure. I want to go back to the to your launch strategy because that is so cool to unpack that you gave away free products and I imagine you were able to build an amazing like email database of, you know, potentially thousands of people. Are you able to share any numbers around that or what that impact has been since that you've seen like returning customers, that kind of thing?
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Yeah, yeah. Um so I would say like we we do have we did build our email list up to thousands of people, I think we have like 5000 person email us now, that's amazing. We have a lot of, we have like 50,000 followers on Instagram and we're basically like, I don't know, I will say this, like I was very nervous about launching during the pandemic. And so when we were launching in March, we were originally not going to do that type of promotion, we were going to just like launch and basically try and do like a little launch party in new york. Um and then the shot strategy totally had to shift and so I honestly was just, it was like nervous, I was like what the quickest way that we can make like a big impact and also just get people to try, I think it's so important with any skin care product, people really want to try and we realize that you know, people were not getting to try things as much like you know, the retail stores were closed and so it was a combination of how do we enable trial and like use it in a way that we can also have like a big splashy launch And so yeah, like it was a little bit of a reaction to the pandemic, I would say.
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But yeah, it was so good, like we were able to really like build up our community, we got more people to join are creatures of habit community and so it was really helpful from that way. We have our communities 200 members now and we will be testing our new products against that community going forward. Yeah, I love that, that's so interesting and really cool. Do you think that in the future when you release new products, you'll do that same approach of like releasing something for free to create that splash or is it in hindsight, you're like, it's too expensive, you know, giving away that many free products is a big commitment, shipping them is a big commitment, so with the mister, it is not really a sample product because the mist the mysteries of ultra fine mist pump and it is not really yet possible to create that type of mechanical pump in a sample size. And so that product itself, because the packaging is so specialized, like I would love to sample it, but it, my pump manufacturer, I don't think technically capable of doing that yet for our next products, they will be sample.
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Um and I, I think we will continue to probably not like full size, but we will continue to sample out products just with the Mr and launching that just giving it out. Our community created so much content around the product and that was so special and so nice and so I do think that there is like a little bit of that calculus of like it is a new product. We are a new brand, like we still have to build so much trust with consumers. I do think in the short run like I'm building habit for the long term and I am growing it to be a big business. And when you take that approach, I think trial and like free trial makes a lot of sense because we are building products that we're testing really well and we are trying to build really innovative products and so our bet is that you know, we sample it out for free initially we can get people to come back and purchase. Yeah, absolutely. Are you able to share any information on what the future looks like for you and what are the next products and what the, what the new journey will be?
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Yes, So again, caveat were originally supposed to launch our first product in March and our second product in the fall, my manufacturer was shut down for quite a bit this year. Our product development cycle has been a bit a bended um but um with the Mr, the a lot of the thought for that product was how do we create something that really makes application and more importantly re application really, really simple. So with the Mr you can apply without touching your face, you can apply directly on your skin over makeup without messing up your makeup. Um And so we really were solving for the use case of re application, sunscreen has a lot of problems. Um So people don't like the texture, people don't like the scent, people don't like that, it's greasy, people don't understand how to use it, they don't know the right amount to use. So I will, I can't reveal too much, but our product development is really aligned with those problems of sunscreen and so next we're tackling the right amount to use.
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Oh my gosh, I can stay for now, wow, I'm so excited, That sounds really cool and that's definitely something that I struggled with because I, you know, put a certain amount of my hand and on my face and then recently I saw this influencer posting like something that she had read about, you know, the fact that you were meant to put way more on or something like this and I was like, oh God, like I've never even thought about how much you meant to put on um and then since then I've been like, damn it, I just don't know what it meant to do here. Yeah, I said that's like kind of one of the problems with the categories that it really is a, it really isn't over the counter drug and so there is guidance around how you're supposed to use it, but people do treat it like skin care and it's kind of seen as optional if you are using it in the first place and like, there's like a lot of, especially like, like the example of foundation, like a lot of foundations get SPF thrown in there and like, it's almost like competing uh like competing goals there because like, a foundation, you want to apply it thin and you want to have it look natural and fit in with your skin, but you're applying a really thin layer and that's probably not enough SPF, you're not probably hitting the rating that's printed on the foundation bottle.
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And so yeah, I think it's a big issue um you know, if you take Advil says take two Advil every, you know, four or so hours, um like sunscreen really does function in that way in which there is a right amount to use but it really hasn't been package to consumers like that and so we really are trying to take these problems that exist and come up with great new products and also just kind of talk about them in a different way. That is so cool and so interesting. I'm so excited for you. What advice do you have for women who have a big idea and want to launch their own business? Yes, I think that it is incredibly important to surround yourself with good people. Um I think that's like that's been the most surprising part of my entrepreneurial journey. It's like you are going to have some bad days, you're gonna have some really tough days and you have to not let that stop you. And I think a big part of that is having good advisers, having good friends who are you know a little further along than you so that they can give you a reality check.
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I have two advisors for habit. Um One adviser is more of a business advisor and I have an advisor that's basically become someone who I lean on more for the emotional support and that's really really valuable. So I would say like you know what you're getting yourself into surround yourself with the right people so that you are really like shaping yourself to win and setting yourself up for success. Absolutely. We are up to the six quick questions part of the episode. I'm so excited question number one is what's your wife? My why was sunscreen really is anti aging. I think that women are, women are taught to fear aging and then they're sold billions of dollars of anti aging products most which do not work there. Just like products that say anti aging, they have no actual mechanism from protecting your skin. I think that it is okay to age, you shouldn't be meant to feel bad about it.
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And you also if you want to protect your skin and if you want to stay, you know, looking looking good, like that's also you're free to do that as well with habit. We are trying to give people effective solutions that are proven and preventative and I do think that you know sunscreen is the best anti aging substance we have and we really are just trying to tell that story and get people to invest in things that work rather than things that feel very fearmongering. Mm Yeah, I guess that's the problem that we have is that you know how you want to know what works and what doesn't you really need to find brands that you trust and that you're able to have that transparency with and have that direct line to I guess because a lot of brands of course you can't just like ring up Estee lauder and be like yo is your product real? Yeah, I mean like with sunscreen too. It's like it's like yes, trust us as a brand, but also trust that this is like a regulated healthcare product and that like you can make a cream and you can slap anti aging on on the label.
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There's no one that checks, there's no one that monitors that you cannot do that with over the counter drugs. And so we are really trying to like, take some of that trust from a regulated category and insulin into the brand. Amazing Question # two. And I might know the answer already. But what's been the number one marketing moment that made your business pop? Yes. So I was are creatures of habit are ongoing marketing moment. Absolutely. Um But yeah, that day that we were featured in vogue was crazy. We had been getting like good traction before, but I think we were like, basically really relying on our community that day, We were just exposed to thousands of people that had or not, maybe big on social media. Um and so that was crazy because there was I was like on Shopify on the back end, just like looking and it was crazy to see so many people seeing the brand for the first time? Oh my gosh, I probably would have cried. I did cry. That.
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Happy D is so good question #3 is where do you hang out to get smarter? What are you reading? What are you listening to? You know, are you hanging out on the internet. Yes. So I like still like I get some help from people sometimes but I pack our habit boxes on my own from my apartment and it has given me a crazy good opportunity to crush books on audible. And so I've, this year I've gotten so good at getting through books on audible and I have especially been drawn to biographies here, biographies of powerful women have really inspired me and particularly I listened to Michelle Obama's biography and she reads it and that was great. Like so, so so inspiring. And then one biography that I keep coming back to because I just find the story to be so inspirational is Chanel her biography and kind of her story of how she built Chanel the label. Um that is a really, really good feed. I didn't know that Michelle read the read her biography.
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That is awesome. Yeah, she reads it. So you just get to listen to Michelle Obama for a few hours highly recommend. I'm gonna download that immediately after this call. I've been wanting to read it and for some reason it's just like not in my Kindle app. So right now I'm going to but on the audible, Get that downloaded. Question number four is how do you win the day? And that's around your am and PM rituals that keep you feeling happy and successful and motivated and productive. So my biggest thing is like I am such an early bird. I don't, I function better in the morning. So I currently have a team of four girls that works for me and we all like start as a team around 10 a.m. But my early mornings when I get a lot of like alone work done and I need that to set my day um so I'm usually up at six a.m. And I will work for a couple of hours like make breakfast and then like the super super ready when the team signs on.
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That's so cool. I'm reading um the five a.m. Club at the moment because I really want to be more of an early bird person. five a.m. Is probably too early but I'm aiming for more around six. So sick like yeah it's perfect because six years manageable. Yeah. Yeah I agree mornings are just so beautiful question number five is if you only had $1000 left in your business bank account, where would you spend it? This is a really hard question but I think that if I had only $1000 so I'm a super, my background is in marketing. I'm a super scrappy marketer like I give myself credit for that, I would have a marketing campaign for $1000 and I would really try to find a way to Create some type of viral moment or something really really impactful for $30,000 and I think you could pull it off so that's what I would do with the last 1000. Nice. Love that, love the confidence. You've got to have it.
00:42:48Edit Amazing question number six, last question is how do you deal with failure? And that can be around a personal experience or something that's happened to you or just your general mindset and approach, um I am a big believer, like if I let myself cry it out and sometimes I need to and I'm not ashamed to admit that sometimes I have to cry it out, sometimes there's not time for that and what I have done, especially like we've all just been so inside this year, if I'm really stressed our like dealing with some type of failure, I like go have a self care moment and take a hot shower and like kind of just like do my routine and that really gets my mind off of what's gone wrong and just like, makes me feel refreshed. So I would say like a hot shower, Nice, I love that, thank you so much for being on the show today. I have absolutely loved learning about your brand and what you're doing and I feel like you're just solving such a relevant problem that I've experienced too. So I just love to see it. Thank you, thank you so much for having me, this was awesome.