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Why consumer education and regulations need to evolve with Nia Davies, Co-Founder of Yugenial

Today I’m chatting to Nia Davies about her self funded CBD wellness startup called Yugenial.

This was such a fascinating episode and I was learning a lot about an industry I know little about. We’re covering the challenges Nia faces in building a business that fits into what the government calls a ‘high risk’ space, how she works around the fact that normal marketing channels aren’t accessible for her and why we need more consumer education and regulations to evolve.

Please note, this transcript has been copy pasted without the lovely touch of a human editor. Please expect some typos!


This is Nia for Female Startup Club. Um Cool, amazing. Well, let's get started. I want to first talk about the CBD industry specifically. Um, and maybe your background and how you became to working in this particular industry. And then we'll move on talking about your brand. Do you want to tell me about your background? Yes. In terms of my background, I was studying medical science at Imperial. Um and that's how I got interested in health and wellness more generally. Just sort of the science behind it. And the fact that I found I went through periods of plan out at university with the camps and learning to manage my time and all this kind of thing. So I became very interested in that space, especially from a holistic perspective.

00:02:17Edit And then the reason cannabis in particular interested me was at Imperial. There's a professor, Michael, David nutt. Um He used to advise the government on drug policy and he's doing a lot of research in the space using psychedelics, cannabis, M. D. M. A. Um And a lot of the science that was coming out with super interesting and the way that I could get involved in that was to look into CBD and what was the kind of information that was coming out about those kind of drugs and cannabis and all that kind of thing. Yes, it's a really interesting story to follow because essentially when he was advising the government um He advised that we should actually legalize these drugs because keeping them illegal was more harmful both to individuals and to research and he was sacked for saying that about 10 years ago and now we're starting to see that there is a lot of science behind, what he was saying. we're using M. D. M. A. For therapy for things like CPSC psychedelics are showing good evidence for things like depression.

00:03:23Edit Um We found that we have an endocannabinoid system and that we're kind of kind of annoyed decisions because um you can get exogenous kind of annoyed some things like hemp and cannabis. So the war on drugs has caused this perception that will be illicit drugs are bad for you and they've got no benefit. Um And it's all about this wonderful youth and now challenging some of those perceptions as we start to see things like cannabis legalized. And so just to refresh my memory and anyone that's listening, when did CBD or cannabis become legal in the UK? It's fairly recent, Right? Yeah. So well so it's legal in the United States, cannabis, cannabis isn't yet legal here. But the reason the reason CBD is different is because it comes from the cannabis plant, but it doesn't contain the molecule that gets you high. So technically DVD is not illegal. Um and the reason it faces so many problems in terms of getting into the space and doing the marketing is it kind of stuck in between where it's not been officially recognized but it's not illegal so long as it contains less than not.2% PhD.

00:04:40Edit Um So because it's not psychoactive it can be sold and taken as a supplement. Got it right? And so now that there's been kind of like this I feel like it's been a boom of CBD products in the U. K. Especially in specific stores opening up like the drug store in Mayfair selling these kind of products. Um Like yeah I guess how is it kind of shifted in people's mind like the perception of this because for example I feel like a year ago I didn't even really know that CBD oil was a thing. And now obviously it's very much a what you might call a boom product and everyone's talking about it, everyone's talking about the effects on anxiety on depression on yeah mental health issues in general but also sleep just general well being. Can you talk a bit more about how it impacts those sectors? Yeah. So um I think the two biggest things facing CBD at the moment, our consumer education and regulation.

00:05:44Edit So like you said there's so many products coming out into the market and the problem with an unregulated market is a lot of those products are not containing the levels of CBD that they say they contain or they're being misleading. For example they've got hemp seed oil which actually contains no CBD whatsoever. Um And so they really need to be a focus on really good quality transparent products that have independently laboratory tested ingredients. Um So that's the first thing and then the second thing is the consumer education where people need to be able to know what they're taking and why they're taking it. And I think CBD suffers from this image of, oh it's just the latest bad, it's just the latest trends and potentially snake oil and that's not the case. I really don't believe that DVD is going anywhere, but the reason that it does treat such a whole range of symptoms because our endocannabinoid system is so extensive, we have receptors in pretty much every organ of the body and it's in our brain, it's not deliver it in our lungs.

00:06:49Edit Um So it's almost like we've got this symbiosis with nature that we've been cut off from almost and this is replenishing that in a way. Um and everybody's endocannabinoid system is slightly different or all genetically different. We will interact with things differently and that's all about self experimentation to some degree and finding out which modes of application went bestie which strength work stu um and figuring out what it is you want to use the product and because it's an industry that's not regulated at the moment, does that mean there's not enough research into the impact it's having on people or there is significant research already into how it can help you and how it can impact those things like mental health, sleeping problems, anxiety, etcetera. Yes, but this is another um issue with the cannabis industry is first of all regulation is coming and it's coming and increasing amount. So the food standards agency already passed new laws this year that all the manufacturers are having to keep up with.

00:07:56Edit Um and it very it's good being a small brown because it's easier to pivot during those times. But it is killing off a lot of brands that can't afford to keep changing with all the new regulations that keep coming in, but they're very much needed. Um And in terms of the research, there is actually a huge amount of evidence already there. But a lot of them are small scale trials because there hasn't been a huge influx of government funding into this due to the legal status. But what these trials to do is they can wave a flag to be sort of say, look how much potential is here. This is a funding, why isn't it? Getting it? And we see in places like the states that it's struggling with funding because Taliban is still scheduled one there, which is limiting science limiting what science can do. And that's part of the social and political issues around cannabis is, in the words of David Matters is a crime in a way because there are a lot of um conditions that could be treated with cannabis that still aren't because the science is being limited.

00:09:04Edit And he believes that it will bring new paradigms into health care, which is why it was, wow, that's so interesting. And so you were learning this at when you were studying at Imperial and then what was the light bulb moment when you thought, yep, I'm going to start a brand and I'm going to take on this seemingly huge challenge to be part of an industry that's disrupting people's wellness and general mental health and things. Um I think the moment was just when I left university because I'd actually been training to be a doctor and it was one of those things where I was never really sure if it was for me and if I was a bit of her round peg in a square hole, square peg in a round hole, I was still figuring out what I wanted to do with my life and if I had the personality for it and I think I've always wanted to go into business because it's creative and it's innovative and that's what I really create.

00:10:09Edit So I left after my BSD and I knew that I wanted to get into start up straight away and I started working for a startup analysts urging mine on the side. Amazing. And so launching a brand a CBD brand, um does it require a lot of capital to get started? Do you have to, how does it actually work? Are you going in developing formulations or something in a lab, what's the process? And especially for anyone listening who is really interested in the industry and might be thinking, oh, I want to do you know, CBD infused gummies and other mood enhances or something like that, how would they go about getting started and where to look and who to talk to. Uh huh. Yes, I think the thing I realized about business in general is you can always find a way to start something to tailor your budget. But generally speaking, I think things are always much more expensive than people realize. Um and I've definitely been taken on a very long learning process in terms of budgeting and financing and figuring it all out as I go along.

00:11:20Edit Um But so with my brand that's got angel investment um so we have that capital there for it and we looked at different types of manufacturing. If we want to go down the more expensive route that has larger margins, you can use a private Labeler and that's where you'll get a custom formula, everything is done from scratch. They're usually not very transparent with their prices is what I found. So you're asked them at the beginning how much can I expect to spend if I work with you and no one will tell you and that's what I find the most frustrating is you've got to give it a go to find out what they're going to charge you and then eventually they'll say something like, oh by the way the minimum order with us for this product due to these ingredients is going to be 1500 units products but they're not very good at being upfront about that from the beginning, so that's with private labelers generally. And then the other option, which is cheaper, um if you can white label products, but it's pretty set formula your products won't be very different.

00:12:26Edit Um but if you can find high quality, then maybe that's an okay way to start, especially if you haven't done it before, and then minimum orders tend to be left right, and I want to move on to the manufacturing process in just a minute to find out where you even manufacture this kind of thing and are their plantations that you have to go and work with or however that side of things work. But before that, I want to go on to a point that you mentioned to me earlier when we were chatting on email that um it's quite difficult for you to get, well not you specifically, but it's difficult to get funding in the industry. And you mentioned the S E I S um, funding isn't available for high risk spaces like CBD and for those who are listening, that S C I S I've just forgotten what it stands for and I do know what it is, if you can also let us know what that is. Well, I can't remember, you know, I actually, a few years ago I was going to google it quickly. I was on a tech panel, speaking about Australian businesses coming over to the UK, uh, investment scheme.

00:13:33Edit There we go. As soon as they told me my industry wasn't viable, I kind of stopped looking into that out. Right, right, right. And is that why you then have to focus on getting the angel funding to begin with because you're not able to get any help from the government? Yeah, it is more, it is probably more difficult because being classed as a high risk industry, he's got to find people that are willing to go for high risk, but the way you can swing it is, especially now, um, is high risk industries also tend to be more recession proof come una so the recession proof industries are cannabis, alcohol, gambling and pornography. Um Yeah, so I mean there's always different stances you can take. Um, but being high risk, it causes issues with funding and payment providers and advertising, so there's definitely a lot more complexity to it.

00:14:37Edit And I think that cannabis is one of those things that will always be high risk because I do see it becoming pretty legalized. It's just that, because it hasn't yet in that bracket, what does it mean? This is probably another really silly question, but what does it even mean to be high risk? Okay, high risk. I think in this sense it means getting around just how many regulations there are in order to survive in the industry, like it's much more highly regulated than others. Got it, got it, got it, got it. And so for you, when you started the brand, did you have to jump through a lot of hoops then to be able to even launch it for example. Yeah. So the first thing that we had to jump through was um Shopify payment provider wouldn't support the product and a lot of the standard payment providers won't support DVD because it comes from cannabis and cannabis still has this issue around it like Paypal and stripe and those kind of providers.

00:15:45Edit Yeah, all of them, although one of them, so we had to find dutch and Canadian payment providers. Um and then you've got to go through the long processes doing all the paperwork to get registered with those, but once you are done with them, then you can start accepting payments. Um and we also accept things like Bitcoin um Cool, proposed definitely an interesting space. It's kind of the people currently in a way um For those two we got sorted. And then the other thing we have to jump through is the no paid advertising and paid channels of marketing. I think that are more indirect ways of doing it, but it's definitely complicated things like this that just won't allow the video at all. Um So it's a lot of organic traffic instead. Um and then the other hoops to jump through probably public perception, although I think that's getting better. Um and then just keeping up to date with the regulations that are going to start coming in because it will be much more highly regulated than it is as we mentioned.

00:16:54Edit Yeah. Yeah. I've heard that as of july next year I think it was that something is going to significantly change and brands who aren't I don't know what the terminology is registered will be not able to sell here anymore. For example. Yeah. That's what the food standards agency introduced this year was this year. Oh yeah because I actually heard about it last year. Yeah. The product has to be registered by next year I think. Yeah. And so moving on to chat a little bit about the manufacturing process before we get into the marketing side of things. So where do you manufacture the products? Yes. So that were manufactured in the UK. But the head itself is grown in the United States and then the oil is extracted there and the oil comes over to the U. K. And then the products are made up here. Um And also just to mention hand comes from the cannabis plant and the difference between hemp and marijuana is that marijuana has high THC, low CBD and hemp high CBD low THC yeah.

00:18:02Edit From the same umbrella plants at two very different plants? Yeah. Well and did your factory or the place where you get it manufactured? Did they find that plantation or did you have to go and find that as well and then take it to that manufacturer and be like, hey, I want to create CBD products. Yes, you can do it either way. But I found a manufacturer manufacturer at a DVD Extra. I went around and I spoke to a few different ones. Um, and they already worked with this plantation. Um, and the reason I liked my manufacturer was they were quite a small boutique team and there were people that had genuinely started making CBD because they've been using it for themselves and their friends and families before it kind of became a thing. Um, so it was just the rapport and getting to know them and that's how we ended up working together. And at that point, were you, this might be a really obvious question, but were you also using CBD and you could see the benefits for yourself for any particular reason. Yeah. So I started experimenting with CBD after a university and I could definitely be the benefit in terms of the most of application.

00:19:18Edit There are some that I like and some that I don't like. So personally I don't particularly like the gummies for some reason. I like the pictures, the oils and tinctures are the kinds of products where you'll take it and you won't necessarily feel any effect, but you just notice the benefits when you stop using them if you want to feel an effect straightaway, I find that smoking it offers that benefit the most obviously. And that's because it's the most by available routes, you absorb it much, you'll feel much more of it and you feel a bit faster if you inhale it. My favorite way of making it is blended with some herbs. Look at that way or to drive, ate the buds and you instantly get a really nice body high, not head height, body high, do it that way. So it's all about the preparation, how you pay it um and what effect you're looking for. I recently just tried CBD oil for the first time because I was having what I do have problems sleeping and being like quite anxious during the day and I ordered a product, I don't remember the actual name of it.

00:20:31Edit Maybe it's called Sib Oil or something and for me what I've found, it's only been like a week that I've been taking or two weeks maybe and obviously I don't notice a difference in the moment, but I haven't actually noticed a difference overall in general. And so I wonder like if you are starting out to experiment with those kind of products, how you're meant to navigate through what seems like hundreds of products. I didn't even know where to start really. Um I had a bit of a recommendation from a friend but I can't say that I've noticed anything kind of worthwhile or okay yes, there are two things is navigating the products and then losing things. So with the navigating the product, I definitely relate to that and I what so many different brands and have tried so many different groups of application in this process. And you know if you believe expensive it's not cheap. So I understand that that's definitely an issue. But there are some core things to look for when it comes to differentiating what's a good brand and what's really not worth bothering with.

00:21:38Edit And I'd say the first thing is look for third party lab test certificates. So that means a laboratory that's not associated with the company has tested the ingredients to certify that it contains what it says it contains. Um And that it's high quality essentially that's the last thing. The second thing is I'd say for a full spectrum over an isil it. So the good thing about a full spectrum CBP is it contains all the other molecules at the time. And even though it's not officially proven yet, um it's believed that those molecules act synergistically to strengthen the effect. Um They liken it to say taking vitamin C supplements where it can take. You can see on its own it's not the same as if you eat it in an orange and it's got all the other factors that help that be absorbed and used properly in the body. Um And then the other thing is you want to make sure that it's very bio available. So as I mentioned the highest, high availability, smoking um the second highest is the oils.

00:22:46Edit You've got to put it under your tongue and then the third highest or kind of the lowest is edible. And they all have their pros and cons making even though you absorb more of it doesn't last as long eating your less of it that you get longer term effects. Um So and the other thing is to check the concentration in milligrams with some products don't even lift the concentration with the grounds which means that they probably contain next to nothing. Um Good A good starting though if you haven't taken it before. They tend to say they devised 300 mg concentration and take one or two pet today under the tongue. And and yeah it is a lot about getting to know your body and finding out what works do you. Yeah and and I think in terms of feeling the effects I think it's also not necessarily just about the effect. So there's a doctor called dr Ethan Russo who sits on the board of american cannabinoid medicine.

00:23:50Edit And one of the things that he said is we need to start to redefine cannabis as something that's not just the medical use and not just for recreational use but which can be taken as a health supplement in a way. And it's all about re achieving homeless basis in the endocannabinoid system. You know if you take a multivitamin you're not necessarily going to feel the effects but you know there are benefits to taking. Yeah I guess that's a good way to think about it, like it's taking a vitamin and you've just got to keep it, keep taking it consistently and over a period of time to kind of reap the benefits. Yeah, that's how I feel and that's why I take it and so okay, so let's let's go back to the beginning of when you were launching the prayer, the brand, you're working on the product. You get to the point where you're like okay I've got the product that I want to sell, how do you actually launch it knowing that there's the difficulties to marketing and how do you find your first customers? Okay. Um yes, in terms of actually launching it, we just launched the site, made it live and then started promoting it on instagram and working with bloggers doing podcasts and yeah, obviously I was surprise, we're not surprised that you're kind of yeah, you are kind of surprised when you start getting the first customers that we don't know to come and buy your products your life, where did you come from?

00:25:22Edit It's nice to see you here. I was like can I just ask how you found the brand and the brand? Yeah, so quite a few of them are either from word of mouth or from collaborations that we've done, especially around christmas, he did a lot of gift guides with a few little um brands and bloggers and they came through there and others were buying gifts for their friends. So definitely the, the organic growth heart is definitely more rewarding in that sense. I feel. And so because you're not able to do any, are you able to do paid advertising at all? If it's not talking about CBD? Like what, how does it work? Or is it because your brand is in the CBD space no matter what, you can't do any advertising that's paid. Yeah. So I've tried many different things. I'm scared to get my account banned. So limit to how much I'll try and push it. But technically, um, if you're a CBD account, it's very hard to be paid advertising.

00:26:28Edit And even in some post, I've not mentioned CBD at all. Um, the advert if it does manage to run, will be stopped and prematurely or halfway through. And so I I do find collaborations and using bloggers is a much better way of doing that and getting around that. Mm hmm. And do you also wholesale the brand to retailers or you just direct to consumer online. Yeah. So we also work with retailers and distribution. Um, and it's nice to work with retailers that are themselves sort of values driven and have a story. We work with like leaving cafe and had me a float center in battersea. Um, it's an online shop could be unlicensed decree. And it's just little boutiques like that at the moment. Yeah, I guess that helps to build the credibility of the brand when you're stocked with these different kinds of retailers and exposed to their audience. Yeah. And it's nice that we have similar okay. And values and missions behind what we're doing.

00:27:39Edit So it's good to work with like minded companies like that and share a like minded audience. Mm Yeah. Absolutely, Wow. And so during this time, obviously with the COVID-19 pandemic going on, have you seen a shift in buying behavior? I imagine people would be buying more. No. Yeah. I mean we still sold the most favorite christmas compared to now and I think that might be because a few of our products are more tailored to gifting. Um So I got a few more this year. Yeah, like the the candle sounds so good. Do you want to tell our listeners about that product? Yes. So the candle is, it's 100% natural, it doesn't contain wax, that sort of sheer butter base and it's infused with CBD and when you lie to it melts, you can pour it on your skin, which I really love, sort of multi quite unique, but that is definitely the most popular guest. Um And people are still buying and I've done some pieces on my blog about trying to stay optimistic if you're a startup in a recession and ways to navigate this period as um an sme well, medium enterprise um um it's that there's definitely a workaround so that it's an interesting time to be running and starting companies and I don't think it should be a blast.

00:29:12Edit What have you been doing specifically as like your work around to innovate during this time and keep keep motivated? Yeah. Um Yeah, well, so not that much has changed for us really, if I'm totally honest, um possibly because of the state we're in and the fact that we are in sme but in the piece I wrote about reasons to stay optimistic, I think a lot of people thank you. Oh, I really want to start a company, but the recession is a bad time, but a lot of great companies launched during recessions and that is because there are upside, like they're being for example, um you can get things cheaper, products and neighbors cheaper and you know, if you can, even though investment may be harder to come by, if you can earned money through customers and revenue, then you're in a much better position to keep going and take off when the economy recovers. Um So yeah, I definitely don't think it should put people off and for you with the brand.

00:30:19Edit Um do you have to keep going through new rounds of funding to be able to scale and grow or now are you able to kind of move forward without taking on more funding? Yeah, so that was one of the annoying things like for many businesses during this whole process, we were fundraising and we were getting new round with investment, which would have helped us to growth and that obviously stopped due to Covid, so now it's really dis management and community growth because growth is guaranteed to be slower without outside investment. Just it's kind of how it works and but it is very rewarding to grow through revenue. So even though it's lower, I think it's a good place to be and we obviously don't have to give away equity that way, but it takes patience, emphasis. Yeah, absolutely. Do you think that you'll have to still get funding after this all kind of dies down or we try and go without. Yeah, I mean that's something that I've kind of been getting on and thinking about a lot.

00:31:24Edit And that's one of the things we've had to think about in terms of pivoting is what do I actually want from the business? Do I want this to be a small, self sustaining being that's a lifestyle business or do I want to grow this and sell it. And I read this book called Company Of One, I think it was by school Jarvis and it's sort of the title is kind of why I think more, listen you big and it's all the benefits of Thanks for being so self sustaining and not giving away equity and having an annual return taps, but as one person, do you really need more than that. So I think we could go either way and that is the beauty of the brand and I'm just keeping it open to either option but I think I'm happy with mm Yeah. It's an interesting one that I've also spoken to a lot of women about and also just people in the industry in general. It's like do you want to take on money and potentially you have to then answer to other people, your life really changes. You can't do as you please. Um But you have the opportunity to grow this brand like exponentially globally.

00:32:28Edit Much much bigger probably than if you were to, well not necessarily much bigger but it would be faster growth like you said, um or do you keep it a business that you can build the lifestyle that you really dream of? And mm that is the dilemma every entrepreneur faces I think. And then you know they say that doing a deal with A. B. C. Is like making a deal with the devil. Yeah. If I did go down that I would definitely prefer angel investment to be the investments for those reasons. But like I said, listen to seeing what happened, Yeah, going with the flow and seeing what opportunities can come forward. And do you think that your brand will expand its product range? Have you looked into what else you might bring to life? Yeah. So that was one of the things I've been looking at over this period as well is do I want to stock other CBD brand and do I want to stock non CBD product? Um and I've been thinking about it, I think non CBD products would help us permit in terms of paid marketing without having to CBD products themselves as um the Abbot.

00:33:40Edit Um but I obviously only one to work with brands that have an aligned mission and value system, which is sort of the triple bottom line people planet and profit not profit at the expense of everything else, which is kind of why we're in the mess that we're in in the first place. Um And I also looked at other CBD brands and I don't think that I would work with anything, a method drastically different to what I can offer. There are a few american brands that I've looked at that I really like. Um and I love the herbal bud and smoking the bugs, but there's a much harder here legally at the minute. So I hope to offer those in future, but not just yet, wow. And usually I ask the women that I'm speaking to, six questions, but before I do that I asked the question of what advice would you give to someone who is wanting to start a brand either in the CBD space or in what they would call a high risk category in general. Yeah, I think um the first thing is to probably think about how much you want it and why you want it because if you really believe in what you're doing, obstacles don't really matter.

00:34:57Edit Um and I would also say research and plan to an extent, but at the same time there is only so much you can plan so long as you know, you want it kind of believe that there's a will, there's a way and you'll just face yes, it helps because as it can so great, thank you so much. I'm going to start with the six the six quick questions now. Number one is what's your why? So my y in terms of getting into CBD is I really believe in changing the perceptions about the damage that the war on drugs of course more integrative approaches to health and a more holistic um And generally sort of the cannabis psychedelic space is amusement that I really believe in and building a brand with purpose and effort behind it. My wife stepped up in the morning. That's really nice. Number two is what's the number one marketing thing that you've done that you saw kind of crazy results from, and I guess that's a harder one for you because you haven't done things like paid marketing.

00:36:06Edit So it's quite interesting. Although even if we had paid, I think I probably still say collaboration much more beneficial because you're working with other brands that are similar to you, other brands or other people that agree with what you're doing and recommend it because they believe in it, not because they're necessarily paid to do it. Um So yeah, I think it's all about collaboration of the competition. Is there one collaboration in particular that stands out that made quite a big impact? Um Yeah, the thing I was surprised about was when I was looking at collaborating with um logs, I thought that bigger following and the biggest blog for more results and I found that that's not the case is actually From my personal experience, the Niche one that has a small but targeted market that are actually really effective. Um So niche brands and bloggers I think are definitely a nice way to go.

00:37:10Edit Like a grassroots movement. Number three is where do you hang out to get smarter. Thanks. Um I used to go to a lot of eventbrite events. I'm definitely an event habit. Places like general assembly, google campus, whatever's on, I'll find it, it's been a very big routine change to go from doing something every day, doing nothing. What kind of events would you go to? Um There'll be things for up skilling like General Assembly, they do a lot of talks on digital marketing or um they actually do something called the wellness exchange where you can meet buyers from like Selfridges and things, so that's always a nice way to meet other brands in the space or to learn new skills and step tips, wow, that's a great one, The wellness exchange, I'm definitely gonna look that up. So cool. Uh number four is how do you win the day? And that's specifically around your AM and PM rituals. I'll be surprised if CBD is not in there. Okay. Yeah, I think um the two biggest things that helped me with the day, our DVD obviously, but also keeping a gratitude diary.

00:38:29Edit Um because sometimes you just go through the roller coaster of emotions and there's not necessarily any reason why I think every emotion just kind of has its time to feature and gratitude always helped me get out whatever it is that decided to take the edge. Is there one that you recommend in particular? Yeah, there's an app called their gratitude app and the icons a little bit of But I just really like that one because it's clean and simple and easy. And some days I also just yet through all my past entries and I'm instantly just transformed because we have such propensity to focus on all the problems and all the things you don't have and just doing that once more saying this changes your whole outlook in that moment. So it's really nice. I'm gonna download it, download it straight away. If you only had $1,000 left in your business bank account, where would you spend it? Mm hmm.

00:39:33Edit I think I would probably spend it on whatever I could do to refine the product. I think it's all about starting with the basics and having this stuff in the store. Yeah. And the last question is how do you deal with failure and it can be a specific example or just your general mindset and your general approach? Yes. I in terms of failure from my personal experience, I think No matter what, in the moment that it happens it's always painful, but it's telling yourself in that moment that you will 100% guaranteed see this differently in time. Um So that's what I did. Just kind of sat it out, reach, it felt the pain and then eventually you do look back and realize just how much that pages baby, but it's only ever really with hindsight. So in the moment it's just telling yourself to wait, that's what I find helpful. Mhm Thank you so much. I also just sort of one more question that I wanted to know personally, what would you and I'm sure everyone else would also want to know what would you recommend as like a newbie beginner product to buy from your site?

00:40:44Edit Like what's the, is it best to start with the candle or is it best to start with the oil? Like how do you get started? Yeah, I think um depending on what you want, so if you want like a nice gift or a nice self care products and the candles, great um if you want to start cooking in the kitchen and experimenting with CBD in food then the elixir is a good choice and we have a free recipe book on our website for that as well. And if you want to start with a daily supplement and just start a regime where you take 1-2 drops a day, then it's the multivitamin that go for mm fab. Where can people find you personally? And also the brand. So personally, I'm near far away, N I A and then far away and the brand is Daniel, the Y U G E N I A Amazing. Thank you so much for taking the time to share about this. Very interesting and innovative space that we all need to learn more about.

00:41:47Edit I think I've really enjoyed talking to you. Me too. Thanks so much for having me.

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