Joining me on this episode is Tracy Dubb, Co-Founder of Isla Beauty.
Isla Beauty was created to make the best products at the best price, from people who know the industry inside and out. They leverage global relationships to create hybrid products that serve multiple purposes, using leading technology, science, and potent active ingredients - all for under fifty bucks.
In this episode we’re covering how Tracy built her company in partnership with a 4th generation manufacturer, the learnings she took from her VC background and how that formed her vision and business model for launching Isla and her learnings from along the way.
Please note, this transcript has been copy pasted without the lovely touch of a human editor. Please expect some typos!
Hi, thanks for having me. I'm so excited to learn all about your skincare range and all the things, I love beauty, but I want you to start first by introducing yourself and telling us what your business is. Yeah, so my business is called Isla beauty, it's a skin care company that we launched in May of 2020. We were supposed to launch in March of 2020, but the universe had other plans. We were actually like trying to launch the company wall, like the shutdown was happening in new york and it was like literally like a comedy of of just things unfolding. Uh but we launched in May and we have uh you know, been around for a couple months, so we're relatively new in our journey. I'm one half of the founding team, I have a co founder, another Australian. His name is charlie and he and I kind of met in new york a couple years ago and you know through, I think there's probably a lot of founders stories go like a lot of a mix of like luck and interest and you know, just good timing and we were kind of like these two people who are living these like totally different experiences, you know, from different parts of the world that just met and had Similar ideas at the same time.
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And you know, when I met Charlie, I was working in my role as a co founder at M3 ventures. I signed on to n three ventures when it was like a really tiny fund with the founder martin Chalfie, you know, probably 56 years ago, I was in my mid twenties. And, you know, at that point he was getting started creating a fund that was sort of focused on investing in consumer brands, which was like, believe it or not a relatively novel thing then. Um it's such a prevalent thing now and I, you know, I joined him and we raised this fund and then we raise another fund and we stayed really focused on consumer brands, which would be like fashion, apparel, food, beverage wellness, and, you know, we did that for a couple years and I got more and more interested in this beauty space that I had just been interested in forever, you know, since I was a kid and um you know, I started to like really see, I think a lot of things that as a regular consumer, you don't see behind the scenes and you know, there was a lot happening in clean beauty and a lot of new companies being born and you know, basically the, like summarized what I felt like I was seeing is like, just this, like, absolute prevalence of new brands coming online, where, you know, the story would be great and the founders would be super inspiring and, you know, there was tons of really, I think exciting things about these brands, but there was oftentimes just no connection to product and product development and product expertise and, you know, I think what you would find like again and again is that like these products would spend a lot of money on them and they would fall short and so you know, there was like for me it's just a growing interest and like how do you kind of bridged the worlds between like history and heritage of product development and expertise and science and results with what people are wanting from their brands today, which is like authenticity and you know a voice and a point of view and integrity and stuff like that.
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And so I you know by luck met charlie and he was coming from like a totally different side, He is the fourth generation in a family contract manufacturing business that they would make products for other brands, you know, hundreds and hundreds of other brands out there, small, large american european and he just had this kind of wealth of information that he was sitting on and you know and all of these products and people that he had come to meet along the way and knew that they were doing something really special and he and I decided to sort of create this brand that kind of bridges this world of you know the people that are making products and the people that are doing the R and D and the people that are doing the sort of discovery and innovation and the brands that are selling them and so that's kind of how isLA came to be sort of conceived and you know, it's been a journey since then we traveled around the world. We, you know, our first three products are from three different countries, one from Australia, one from Switzerland, ones from Italy, you know, we have some new products coming out this year, so that's kind of Iowa in a nutshell, wow, sounds incredible.
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I mean, I guess the challenges of having, you know, producing things all around the world must be easier to have given that you have this person involved in the business who is, you know, manufacturing expert and someone who understands all the working parts of that because it's something I had asked myself, I was like, wow! When I saw on the label Made in Switzerland, Made in Italy Made in Australia, I was like, holy moly, that's a that's a lot of different moving parts to get that going. Yeah, I'm wanting to talk about your knowledge coming from the VC landscape, obviously you're an expert in that space, you know, a lot about it when you were wanting to approach the business with a lens of like funding the business from the beginning, did you still have to consider, should we bootstrap or should we go for funding? Yeah, I did, having done VC for a really long time. I I know how competitive it is. I know, you know what kind of pressure founders put on themselves after raising money and I just know that, you know, whether you have the experience in that world or not, it's not always easy to raise money, money is not always there when you want it to be.
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And so, you know, we weighed that heavily, we kind of bootstrapped for as long as we could, we sort of got these products as far along as we possibly could and the concept as far along as we possibly could and then we did raise money and for us, I think that was really the only path forward that would have worked, you know, for us at this time we were working with, you know, the partners that we're working with around the world, they kind of have their pick of brands to work with and people to partner with and product development. And so, you know, we could have maybe bootstrapped it by working with partners that were maybe younger in their journey or a little bit less proven, but that was kind of counter to what ISla was. So we really just wanted to invest in that. So like the majority of the money that we raised up front really went into investing in inventory and those research and development partners that said the decision to raise money is always hard and scary and there's definitely this, I think giant sense of where do I begin? Like how do I even start this?
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What feels like a monumental task and you know, definitely like I have so much respect for all of the different founders that I've met along the way and empathy for them because it's a really hard journey? It's a really emotional journey, you know, you don't really have anyone to tell you what to do and what the right answers are. You know, it can be even with partners or whatever, it can be really lonely and really stressful. So it's a hard decision and I definitely, you know, I think for people that are planning to raise money, I think like the best advice that you can give them is like get your business to the best possible place you can possibly, you know, you can get it and kind of talk to people and anticipate some of those questions and how you're going to answer them because there's definitely, it's hard emotionally to kind of go through meetings and have people say no or poke holes in your vision, you know, when it's so young and so new. So yeah, it's a tough decision for sure. And I definitely always recommend bootstrapping it, you know, as far as you can. And then even after you raise money kind of bootstrapping it again, because I think that's healthy mentality for a new brand that's really interesting, especially given that you are essentially so prepared for VC and for going down that pathway, Was it what you expected it to be?
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Was there anything unexpected that came out of it? You know, more or less, we raised a friends and family around, you know, and then we had a couple of funds participate, you know, so I was doing fundraising meetings with anyone from people that I've known for 10 years to people that I was just like put on an email with and was starting from scratch. You know, you don't know anything about me and I never were in between, you know, I can't say that I had a lot of surprises along the way because I've just done so many of these meetings, you know, I definitely feel like the biggest learning that I had was just how much these voices of these people that you're talking to kind of can stay in your head and that can be a really positive thing in a really negative thing. But I think you have to really be prepared for that. Like you're going to get a lot of questions, a lot of criticisms and some of them are totally irrelevant and like frankly offensive and then some of them may feel that way, but upon further reflection, they're actually like really helpful. So, you know, I definitely think something that charlie and I learned along the way is like, okay, let's just sort of treat all feedback as let's give it a fair shot and let's consider it and you know, let's see how we can kind of incorporate it into our business and then at some point you kinda have to make a choice where you're like, you know, we're being true to what we think Isla is, or we're trying to conform ourselves into what like someone else wants us to be, um which I think is just a question as an entrepreneur, you just ask yourself every day for the first couple of years.
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Yes, totally, I want to go back a little bit too when you met charlie, what was the timeline in terms of, you met him, you kind of have these light bulb moment together that you might start a business, What was the timeline from that to launching? Yeah, it was actually really fast, it was probably, you know, meeting each other than meeting each other again and sort of deciding that, you know, this is what we were going to do, it was probably a couple months, you know, it was probably like three months, you know, I, when we first met, it was, I think both of us kind of were like, you know, maybe there's some business we can do together, I was still with my fund, I was like, maybe, you know, m three concede this and and I think for him, he was like, you know, Tracy is interested in a brand and she works with brands, like maybe my, my family can supply her products, you know, he was also already on a path where he was going to start a brand, I was kind of on a path where I was going to start a brand, but we weren't obviously planning right away to do it together and then we just kept talking and I think we felt like we had really complementary skill sets and experiences, so like once we made that decision, you know, there was really like, it just kind of went from there and you know, and I really, the one thing I'll say is like I definitely credit charlie with really like moving the conversation along, you know, he's the type of person that is very, has a lot of like conviction in what he believes and so like when he was like, you know, this is right, like we're going to do this, he just, he didn't second guess it and he didn't like equivocate and I think that that's a really, really important skill for an entrepreneur and I definitely think it's something that I will say comes easier to men than to women and so I think it's a good thing for women to kind of just take note of and learn and I definitely having met like hundreds of, you know, founders and entrepreneurs, like the boys seem to like believe, you know more consistently that their ideas are really great, whether they are or they aren't, and I think, you know, that's something that personally I've tried to do more of and I think like women in general can probably do a little bit more of charlie is a movement.
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Just making move. So when you said three months, does that mean you developed your products in three months? No, that's just like the amount of time where we were like, okay, you know, from meeting to be like, we're really like making this happen, let's get lawyers on the phone, let's start, you know, figuring out names. And there was like checkpoints along the way where it was like, okay, we're going to have this branding meeting together and see if we're kind of aligned on the brand. And then it was like, what would the products be? And like, you know, let's have a call with some R and D people. But I would say the timeline from like first meeting to like we are in business together was Maybe like 6-9 months. So it was like, you know, I think it felt fast but like appropriate, but I know that, you know, probably for co founders, it's that timeline. Like, I mean you wouldn't know better. That timeline probably is like all over the place totally. And after that then for the product development specifically, how long did it take you guys to settle on? Okay, we're going to launch with three products. This is what we have in mind. We're going to go all over the world and source from different countries and here we are on launch day and we have these three products ready to go.
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I think that took about a year and I would say that that was for this business, particularly that was like an extremely expedited timeline, You know, that was like a year with people that have been doing this professionally for forever and their parents were and you know what I mean? And so you know, the people that were helping us with the supply chain and logistics, like a family business and so that was probably the fastest you could have launched a beauty company honestly, while still maintaining, I think the level of product integrity and uniqueness that we did in our products and are you able to share something that comes up often? When I'm speaking to women who are listening to the show is the money side of things, are you able to share how much it kind of cost in terms of startup capital just to get started to build the brand when you were bootstrapping it, pre funding through to what was needed for funding or what you thought you might need for funding? Yeah, I mean, I don't know if this necessarily applies to ISLA, but I'll say just generally for, um, even from founders that I've met through them three, I think like a couple $100,000 you know, is sort of what gets people to where they need to be to raise money, which, you know, I think about how much money that is, you know, to ask for from friends and family or to like dig into your own savings and so like when I would meet, you know, founders at M three and they'd say like, you know, we bootstrapped it this far and then now we're raising money, I was always super impressed by that because it's a lot of money, it's a lot of money to put on the line, it's a lot of money to ask for.
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But yeah, I definitely think that there's a certain like kind of unavoidable factor of just like needing some startup capital before you're really in a position to raise money and I think most of that kind of goes into like flushing out the brand and you know, maybe developing or at least making some inroads with the people that you're going to work with to supply the product and getting some samples made and stuff like that, which just unfortunately, you know, cost money. I haven't really found that boy around it. Yeah, and I guess as well, like for you guys, you know, you launched with three products versus a company that launches with say 20 it must be a significant investment to buy into the products. Yeah, I mean this is a very like inside beauty observation, but like if you see a beauty brand launching and they have like 20 products, like there's big money behind it and so like, you know, there's just like no way around it because it's just expensive, it's like a numbers game and it costs a lot of money to make these products and by the packaging and shipped them to America or ship them wherever they need to go. And so you know that's why you'll see a lot of brands do these like tiny little launches and I think that's why the first couple of years for brands are super challenging.
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Yeah, it's hard to be in business with a small product line, it's hard to be trying to sell that product line and develop new stuff. It's just it's a challenge. Yeah totally. And then throw in the pandemic into them, you just got a perfect song. Um I want to talk about marketing and you know going back to the actual launch, it's been you know, less than a year now. You launched in april I think you said, what was that like? And what was the launch plan? And how were you starting to acquire customers from the get go. Yeah, so our launch, well our launch plan and our actual launch were like night and day. There were two totally different experiences. Um One really revolved around launching the brand in new york city with a lot of sort of in person activations and sort of meeting people and seeing the brand around in and around new york. We felt like that was an interesting strategy to kind of launch products in a crowded space and just really focus on one geography where we could really meet people and talk to people and kind of explain our ideas and use, you know, we had kind of hoped to use these people that we had physical access to more proximity to and kind of seed, you know, some of our ideas and our product and what we're about with them and knowing that they kind of act as like many, you know, podcast or amplifiers within their own groups.
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There's like, I think there's people in every group that are like, you know, the influence in their group and that's kind of what we really wanted to tap into with our launch. We definitely feel like the actual overall influencer strategy that is so closely tied to beauty and like consumer stuff in general is a little bit played out and we wanted to kind of like empower people who are really passionate about something to be an influencer within their own community and so, you know, that was kind of a big I think and that still is a big part of how we believe in growth and how we think about growth, like we really wanted talk to the people who want to spend time understanding our mission and understanding what we're trying to do and not just anyone with the platform, we were kind of looking forward to being able to do that and bring isLA to life around new york and then when the pandemic hit, we kind of had to pivot to online and you know, we made a really, we made a choice at the time which was to try and like translate all of this stuff into an online experience or to just kind of launch organically and see what happens and you know, given what was going on at the time, there was you know obviously we still are, there was a massive international crisis and we kind of just wanted to put it out there and like let people find it and share it if they wanted as opposed to maybe go through like somewhere of the traditional routes, like trying to get pressed around it or you know, any like paid advertising.
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So we kind of just went into business one day And you know, I think at a certain.2 it's like whether pandemic or not, you kind of just have to go into business one day and start learning and see what happens. And so that's what we did. And we were really fortunate that you know, people were excited and they wanted to share and they, you know, we started to get, even though we weren't able to do everything we wanted to do. You know, we found a lot of people who were excited to hear that we looked different maybe than what they were used to in beauty and that we sounded different and you know, I definitely thinking like an overcrowded online world, it's definitely important to stand out in what you sound like or what you look like, because I think, you know, you can kind of anyone can buy sales to an extent and you can get to a place, but are you going to resonate with people? You know, that's a different question. Mm totally. Gosh, it's such a challenging one when you have that whole plan and then you have to literally either throw it out the window or say, hey, we're gonna do this, we're gonna try again next year and and regroup and re I don't get going.
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So with your marketing then what is it that you find does help you acquire new customers? Is it just social media or is it still working with those smaller kind of influential people within their circles to put the word out there, We spend a ton of time like trying to find people, you know, it's obviously we've had to kind of move all of that online, but we're trying to find people who we believe based on like what we can figure out about them are going to appreciate what we're doing, you know, and talk to them and get them product and sort of explain to them what I'll is about, you know, and chat with them, like charlie or I or you know, some of the people that work with us and you know, for us that is right now, what's working for us as far as marketing, and then I think that goes hand in hand with having like messaging that can resonate with people if they get to see it. And so I feel like it's like this two piece thing where you have to find people who are going to be really evangelical about your brand and then you have to also make sure you're reaching people generally and that what you're saying is kind of resonating with them.
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And you know, I think in the beginning that also means like constantly evaluating and asking questions and asking your customers like what they like and what they don't like and what they think and trying to understand like what their perception of your brand is and how that aligns with what you're trying to do and you know, and I think it's a lot of sort of evaluating and reevaluating, but I think taking a step back like before you decide to go into business, the most important thing you can do is like identify like does this thing need to exist and is it already being, you know met by something that's out there in the market and if you can answer no to both of those questions, then I think the job that you have is to really find those people and you know, and speak to them and communicate with them. So that's really what we've been trying to do, you know, now in our first couple months in business and to dig one layer deeper, how many people are you, you know sending product to every month and how many customers or potential customers are used to, you know your ideal target customers are you actually speaking to just to paint that picture for anyone who's new in business and they're thinking or You know should I be sending five gifts a month or should I be sending 500 gifts a month?
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Yeah, I mean I definitely think it's business by business, it depends what your costs are you know on that product. But for us we really do you know recognize that this is like you know spending between 40 and $50 on a skincare product that you can't try before you buy it, that's a big purchase and so we want people to either get recommended it from a friend or had the opportunity to try it from us and you know and decide for themselves and so we, you know for the first couple of months we spent basically all of our spare time trying to reach out anybody that we you know felt was interesting and get them product or make a connection, have a conversation, you know, I think for us it made sense a lot of times to extend the product but you know for another brand, it's like send a discount code, send more information just just do something you know to make that connection and you know I think send is do it as broadly as you possibly can. So like we, you know, we are connecting with hundreds of new people every month, you know, whether it's to see product or to just like chat with them or you know whatever it is, but like you have to, you know, you can do all these things to like start a business, but at the end of the day and this is probably why you're asking these questions like the marketing pieces, like the big thing, right?
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Because if you can't get it out there then it doesn't matter how great your product is. So you know, I think for every brand it's a little bit different but you just have to kind of keep trying until you figure out what works and then just like push really hard on that double down, triple down, looking back, you know, it's been your first year of business, first year since launching, what has the feedback been and what are the things that had so far? I think looking back the key learnings are, you know, especially in the digital world that we're in right now, there is a lot of noise and there are, you know, a lot of, there's a lot of, I think um misinformation out there and sort of marketing lead and maybe even like profit lead or you know, uh like um communications lead, uh like systems that are in place or if you're a small brand or if you're just starting, like you have to know that you're going to be going up against those and that, um, people's thinking might not change, you know, overnight, but if you stay at it, like you will find, I think that people, you know, it will start small and it will kind of grow exponentially and people will really be interested in what you have to say.
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But you know, you can maybe have to be prepared for like some push back in the beginning or even just some feeling like, you know, what does anyone even listening like does anyone even care type of thing? But I think the most exciting feedback that we've gotten, it was just like people that are sort of really grateful for our product, you know, doing what it does at the price that it does and like the just general positioning of the brand and you know, and how we are consistent with who we are and how we, you know, how we speak about our products and how we won't subscribe to some of the things that, you know, maybe like traditional beauty brands do. And so I think like the things that we've stayed most consistent on as a brand are definitely the things that you'll then come to realize like you get consistent feedback on and that's, you know, slowly what makes you different in the market and so I think that's really rewarding like when people kind of understand who you are and they can kind of get like, you know, a good sense of who you are and they like you for that, like that's great feedback. And so I think for us, a lot of that has been like, just our authenticity in the market and just like our commitment to this sort of price and product level and that will be different for every brand.
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But that's kind of what it is, you know, for Isla what you were saying in the beginning of that, it reminded me of something that I tell myself every day and that's just I like have it written somewhere stop stopping. You've just got to keep going and you've got to stop stopping because it's those small compounded steps that add up every single day and in a year's time and in two years time and in 10 years time they will have all of made sense and made it worthwhile. Yeah, I think like the biggest thing like really is like staying true to who you are, like when you go into business and then when you're trying to market yourself, like there's a lot of pressure, I think to like, you know, just say whatever that person wants to hear from you, whether it's like a retailer that you're trying to sell to our customer, you're trying to sell to and like especially when you're trying to do something that is novel and sounds different or looks different than the industry at large, like, you know, it's scary because you are gonna say things that like, people with bigger platforms maybe are saying the opposite of and so I think that idea of just like being really consistent is definitely the most rewarding thing that you can do in terms of creating feedback and then it feels the most rewarding when you get that feedback.
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Yeah, for sure. What does the future look like for you guys? Are you thinking you'll stay direct to consumer? Are you wanting to expand into wholesale and going into retailers and things like that? Yeah, I think, you know, our our idea has always been to not be like strictly in one camp or the other, I think that you know, and this is just my view on brands in general, like there was a moment in time where everyone was like, I'm just going to be direct to consumer and then people are like wholesale cost direct to consumer is the winning combination. You know, I think for us we have this like story that we want to tell them. We have all this information that we want to give our customers and Sophie the priority for us is always going to be like, how can we tell that story? How can we get this information across to our customers And so, you know, if we can't do that in partnership with a certain wholesaler because we don't have that direct line of communication and then we probably won't do it, but if we can find wholesalers out there who are innovating in the way that they speak to their customers and that they connect brands and customers, which so many are, then we'll definitely do it. And so, you know, we want to be directed consumer, we want to have a physical presence, we want to have an international presence, but we also want to, you know, reach people where they are.
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And so I think, you know, I think wholesale is definitely like on the table for us for sure, exciting so much to come. What is your top advice for women who have a big idea and want to start their own business? You know, I think my top advice is well, first of all, let's just go do it. But you know, I don't think that that's like novel, like just go do something, just you know, try anything and see how it goes. But you know, I think another really practical step is like ask yourself what you feel like you can do, you know, to start the business and ask yourself like what you feel like you cannot do, and then you start to understand how you can fill in those holes because I think like the idea of starting a business overall, when you think about raising money making product marketing, you know, writing copy all those things like it is really overwhelming, but then when you start to break them down it's not that hard, you know people there are people in your network can give you some advice on how to build a website or you know even like how to maybe raise money hopefully and um you know, I think just like start small and figure out what you feel really comfortable with because like when you're, I think starting a business you're going to have to go back to that over and over for your confidence and for your feeling of like progress and then you're going to have to get comfortable with the things that you're not good at and you know good at filling in those holes totally and I think there's a lot to say as well about you know the school of Youtube like you can learn everything online these days, you can google it and a big part of being an entrepreneur and owning a business is being a problem solver and that means like figuring out the answers and Youtube is great for that Yeah, I learned a lot, we are up to the six quick questions part of the episode, so question number one is what's your, why my why is because I, I just have spent a lot of time and sort of personal energy on you know being, I think like not believing things are feeling pressured into doing things or buying things are feeling a certain way about myself and you know through I think the consumer journey as it is in beauty or you know, even in health and wellness.
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But for me specifically in beauty and skincare and my wife is to just like be you know the sounds maybe a little cheesy but like just to create like a little bit a more honest and transparent reality in this industry that is everywhere. You know in this industry that is not going anywhere and is really important and can create a lot of good for people. But you know, I want to sort of be a force in maybe eliminating some of the negative. Yes. Absolutely. Question #2 is what's been the number one marketing moment so far that's made your business pop The # one Marketing moment is just like any organic any person saying you know publicly like this product has like changed my life for this product is like I love this product so much Like you think that it needs to be like a celebrity but it doesn't it just really you just really need some people to sort of fall in love with your product and then like endorse it. You know that's I mean that's the honest truth. And then you know, the bigger the platform, I guess the more that endorsement goes but it doesn't need to come from like someone huge.
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You can just come from anyone. Mm Yeah The importance and the power of word of mouth marketing is, is very real. It's the only thing, you know, there's like tons of other ways to kind of go about marketing. But when you're starting out like that word of mouth marketing is really what gets people, you know to your online store. Absolutely. Question # three is where do you hang out to get smarter? What are you listening to? What books do you read? What newsletters do you subscribe to right now? I'm reading conscious commerce by john Mackey who's the founder of Whole Foods. I pretty much try to do all of that. Learning and getting smarter in reading. I know that we were talking about tim ferris's book before. I just like consume all of that sort of like founder biographies or you know even just like inspiring people's biographies And you know, I think that there it's like for me it's been like the best thing you kind of can get lost in someone's story. But then also like take a lot for yourself as well. Mm Yeah, I'm going to add that one to my, to my reading list and link it in the show notes for anyone who wants to check it out.
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Conscious commerce sounds great. Question Number four is how do you win the day and that's around your am PM rituals that keep you feeling motivated and successful and happy and productive. My am is like I take an hour for myself in the morning. You know, I try to just not like jump into work, especially like in quarantine, you know it's a routine can get monotonous, so like I take an hour I do whatever I want to do and then you know I kind of get into my day and then I think you know I've, what I've really started to try to do is like plan my day a little bit better like time block and put things together that you know, I think mentally makes sense because I found that just like severe fatigue from trying to switch you know into a million different roles throughout the day, like going from customer service to like you know social media to like trying to build a model to talking to a bank, like it's just too much. So um for me it's really like planning those things out has really helped and then you know, and then I think it was important to end your day like the same where you started just like really doing something that is a clean break from the day for me that's been like a lot of times it's cooking again, there's not a lot that I can do, but just, I just find like doing something physical that's not typing has been like really helpful for me to like I don't know, get rid of some pent up energy and just like take my mind off stuff, absolutely, getting your hands moving in like a different way.
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I recently joined our local parks gardening group and it is just such joy getting out and like putting my knees into the dirt and waiting the love into beds and being like this is such a break from my usual day to day with what can feel such like you know, monotonous activities because it's just everything's the same, it's like Groundhog Day obviously. But yeah, I just so love getting out there and getting my hands dirty. Well I wear gloves but you know in theory, question number five is if you only had $1000 left in your business bank account, how would you spend it? Wow, that's a great question. Um I probably spend it on that like seating budget, you know, just getting more product in people's hands, that's been like, you know, obviously we've already talked about this, but that's kind of been like what's worked for us the most? And I would, I guess I try to pick some really great people nice and last question is how do you deal with failure? You know, I think you like take a minute to really think about it and like process it and be upset or be angry or you know whatever you want to do and then you kind of have to like put it away and move on and you know, that's been definitely like something that I've had to train myself to do because my instinct is to kind of let it hang over me.
00:37:36Edit But the one thing that, you know, I think that you can't do is just let that'd be like the narrative that's like running in your head all day. So you just have to like move on and you have to, I think for me, the important thing is to like forced myself to focus on some winds that we've had as well i by nature and I think maybe a lot of people are like this, like the winds, they go in and out of my brain in one second if I'll even like let them in and then the failures or feelings of rejections, like they'll just linger forever. So I mean you have to, I think at some point just be realistic and just, you know, say like this wind is bigger than this loss or you know, this loss is not bigger than this went and you know, just keep moving. Got to keep moving. Yeah, Tracy, thank you so much for taking the time to be on the show today. I've loved chatting with you and learning about Allah Beauty, you too, and I hope you like your products um and I hope we get to do this again one day. Me Too. Hopefully in Switzerland or something or something fun.