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How to Sell Your Business for 20M+ with Blueprint Cleanse / Earth & Star Co-Founder Zoë Sakoutis

Today I’m chatting with Zoë Sakoutis, the serial entrepreneur behind Blueprint Cleanse, Erzo and most recently Earth & Star.

Earth & Star is a functional mushroom company bringing powerful immune supporting benefits through ready-to-drink lattes, coffee and chocolate. Enhanced with a therapeutic dose of the most powerful adaptogenic mushrooms to create the ultimate “entourage effect”, Earth & Star’s products provide your daily dose of calm, mental clarity and immune support to supercharge your everyday routine.

In this episode we talk through what it was like to sell her first business, Blueprint Cleanse for circa 20+ million dollars, what happened in business number 2 and her new venture Earth & Star; like what looks different in building a business from 2007 to 2021.

Please note, this transcript has been copy pasted without the lovely touch of a human editor. Please expect some typos!

Yes. Um, wow, that just sounded funny to hear like that in plural. Um, but yeah, it's been more than one. So it's always secure this coming to you from new york city Brooklyn specifically. And so I started a blueprint was The first brand way back in 2007 and along with my partner Erica as we, we gave that a go, oddly enough, right during the crash, the mortgage crisis, which was probably not the best timing, but in some ways kind of interesting, but blueprint was basically an answer to my own need at the time, which had to do with the fact that I was really into nutrition.

00:04:56Edit Uh you know, this idea of healing yourself through food. I was like a hardcore raw foodists, I kind of went way down the rabbit hole and you know, this idea of fasting and juicing and detoxing and healing through foods was so intriguing to me, but I couldn't find it anywhere that was presented in a way that was convenient or you know, made me sort of like proud to carry around everything at the time was pretty crunchy and hippie and weird so that, you know, it was is really an answer to my own need, which was like, can someone take this fringe concept that super beneficial, incredibly healthy, not enough people know about and just presented to people in a way that is like consumer friendly and not dogmatic and approachable and actually looks like sleep like you want to carry it around like a badge of honor. So yeah, that was back in 2007 when nobody heard of plant based people certainly weren't talking about eating like raw foods and detoxing and fasting and juicing and now it's just like, I mean, I can't even, I can't believe it's like intermittent fasting.

00:06:00Edit Everyone's like their day carved out every week where they do, it's just so commonplace now, it's, it's great. I mean it really blows my mind. Absolutely. And you had since then another brand kind of in between Arzo and then now you have your third brand Earth and star. Yeah, so we um scaled blueprint, sold a, took a very small short victory lap, you know, it took a little bit of time off. I had like a couple of kids and you know, we were kind of like how do we keep this conversation going? How do we keep a foot in this? Well, in this world, it's definitely something that's not slowing down. The interest is still there. There's always curiosity and maybe this is sort of like a warning to everyone who tries to start a business when they're pregnant because your brain actually does shrink. Um just wait, just wait till the baby step. So that's actually when we started in Arizona, I think it was still and probably still is kind of slightly ahead of its time, but it was a food form of multivitamin essentially in a cookie form. And there was obviously a lot of learning and that we gave it a go, we realized that you're in that it was just like such a heavy lift in terms of the financing required and you know, after a year of R and D and legal, we just decided like, hey, this is a really pretty brand that's useful to a market that's potentially not big enough to pursue further and we kind of just shelled it and so like, okay, moving on.

00:07:27Edit So, you know, we definitely learned a lot in that experience, but after that it was again the same kind of conversation around like how do we stay involved in this space in this industry and not necessarily through a product, it wasn't like, we have to come up with the next consumer product that's got X, Y and Z. Superfood and is going to do all these things. It was really just like an easier way to stay involved in this conversation and like why don't we just start a podcast? Like there's some super low hanging fruit. Thank why don't we keep the conversation going? Like we know enough people in the space by now where we can continue conversations with experts around subjects that we wanted to dive deep into entrepreneurs founders who were starting interesting businesses, you know, in the wellness space. And so yeah, that was like a very fun and easy way to keep the conversation going and stay involved. And so we've been doing that for a couple of years but kind of not so intentionally, we just found ourselves at one point like going through our nine bottle deep supplement cabinet, like God, this mushroom extract that I've been taking for like the past year and I was kind of blowing my mind and we just stumbled on this conversation and we had both been taking functional mushroom extracts for the better part of a year and for different reasons, I mean I think I gravitated more towards the like lions made and those sort of like cognitive functionality.

00:08:50Edit Erica's not great with sleep. So she was doing all this grease, she, we had this moment, we're like, God, you know, I stopped taking it and it was so incredibly noticed, like I noticed immediately and it just really piqued our interest at that point and he said like this is super effective, there's a ton of science on it. It's really interesting just the mushroom space in general, there are a handful of brands that are doing it right now, but like no one's doing it in a delicious convenient way. Like everything is a powder or a pill or a tincture, like I have to mix something, it's at least two steps and then I need like a froth er sometimes and then it's like mix it and then it's, you know, the final product is like clumpy and you know, it doesn't taste that good. So we were just like, I think this is kind of an interesting opportunity and the moment we just pulled the thread on that sweater, it was like, oh this is incredible. Like the mushroom space, like the efficacy there, where it was going, the use cases, I mean it was just kind of mind blowing liken it to discovering like raw foods and juicing.

00:09:53Edit It was like, oh my God, this feels incredible, like why don't more people know about this? So we decided, let's just go after this in a way that we know best, which just so happens to be where there is some white space right now which was ready to drink and we're like, okay, we know beverage sort of and I mean I say that because like blueprint was truly like there was no blueprint before that, like there was no one was selling raw unpasteurized you. So it was just insanity. But now, you know, so with this product was ready to drink, there's like a co packer for it, you know? So it's a slightly less daunting in some ways. So we sort of like roll up our sleeves, we got very involved most like two years of R. And D. In creating this formulation and we wanted to do it the right way obviously, so we don't have to do it reformulate again. So it's super clean label, you know, there's no junk in it, there's no gums or seed oil, I can't believe how many coffee brands have canola oil or sunflower oil, there's no sugar alcohol, there's a stevia, like nothing weird.

00:10:58Edit It's truly like a very clean label. So we worked really hard on that for a very long time, totally self funded it. Still to date. We have a couple small individuals, but you know, we're just now launching it and it's kind of crazy because we've been working on it forever. And again, it's like, how did we manage to launch like another business during a crisis? Like this time is a, but in a funny way, it's helping with the messaging right? Because we obviously didn't plan it, but first and foremost what functional mushrooms do is regulate your immune system. So it couldn't have been more timely, it was just like, oh my God, we just came out with a product that's what everyone on this planet needs desperately on a daily basis. You know, basically just to like, support the immune system regulated. So that was kind of a fun discovery, a little like silver lining in the pandemic. Absolutely. Well, um wow, first of all, holy moly, this is such a long journey for you both and so exciting. I feel like you've been through really like major highs, major lows.

00:12:03Edit I'm keen to kind of touch on All three of the businesses. Usually we focus on how you're building the biggest business, how you grew at that kind of thing. But with blueprint cleanse, I want to talk about more, that exit piece because it's something we haven't discussed a lot on the show and I want to understand that side of business a bit more. So what I'm wondering is when you started that business, was there always a clear vision or pathway to exit from the get go or did that come later? No, I think that was very, very clear in my mind. It was not interested, in fact, it was, you know, it was sort of looking around and seeing all these juice bars and thinking like this is some dated approach, Like I don't, I'm so not interested in, I'm interested in juicing and fasting and detoxing, I'm not interested in like opening up a chain of juice bars. Like I want to like really innovate here and eventually grow it to the point that yes we can sell it. So scalability was out of the gate was definitely something that we wanted to do so that we could eventually exit.

00:13:06Edit And I guess it sounds strange because looking back, I'm like really kind of surprises me. It's like yes that was always the intention. But so with blueprint, we didn't ever raised money. So I think a lot of people don't realize that because it's pretty unheard of. I didn't actually know how rare that was until after we sold it, but basically I think I got like a couple of $1000 from my brother. I was like, hey, I want to do this juice cleanse thing and they didn't know what I was talking about was like sure, but just being back And you know, I think I maxed out my credit card like $25,000. And you know, counted on the kindness of strangers to give a little corner space in their kitchen and that was really a bootstrapped company the entire way. And so we never took on outside investment. And it wasn't until, you know, we started directing consumer, we were selling this cleanse program we were delivering were our product across the country nationally. And then we cracked the code on H. P. P. We're basically trying to figure out how to get on shelves and you could not get on shelves if you were a raw product.

00:14:08Edit So that put us to work to try and find a solution that wouldn't compromise the integrity of the juice. So in other words we could heat it because that would just be going backwards. So we were the first to also apply HBP to juice. HBP HBP is a pressurized way to treat the juice so that it inhibits the growth of bacteria and it makes it safe for consumers. And the reason that's attractive is because it maintains the nutritional integrity, the juice that maintains the enzyme activity and it's super fresh and it doesn't affect the flavor. So we applied that that was kind of like a you know, definitely a game changing moment. We're able to get on shelves and scale through whole foods and all the rest and right when we did that, you know, still hadn't raised any money. It was a really nice business model in that way. It's always cash flow positive. But we got a call from Mr Howard Schultz himself, who if you don't know him, he's the founder of Starbucks and you know, it was kind of like, oh okay I guess we know who our competition is now.

00:15:12Edit You know like we were wondering when like the bigger players were going to come in and kind of like try and eat our lunch. You know the first call from howard Schultz was like a good sign that they were entering. And so he said, hey, I love what you're doing. I am interested in entering this space. And you know, he made us an offer, We had a bit of a courtship. It was like a few months of trying to see if we could strike a deal and ultimately we passed, we thought it was just too early. We were to like on the eve of explosive growth really having just applied this H. P. P. And getting a nationally pretty major accounts. So we did not go forward with that. He ended up buying actually evolution, which you see in every Starbucks at least in the US, it's another cold pressed juice. And so that sort of put us in play earlier than we wanted. We knew at that point that we needed a partner because we needed a pretty big cash infusion if we're going to compete with what we saw coming down the path, which was like the bigger players like Pepsi coke, Starbucks etcetera. So at that point we actually engaged a broker to help us like start conversations with potential investors.

00:16:19Edit Otherwise I don't know if we would have done it, but we did have, you know, we had a couple of conversations with Pepsico and entertained a few different structures, minority partnership, majority partnership And ultimately this is 2012 end of 2012 and we ended up selling just a full on acquisition to hain celestial, which at the time seemed and still seems like it was the right choice. We could have taken on a smaller investment and grown and then probably have a shinier exit probably a few years later with a much higher valuation and obviously less of the pie. But you know it felt a little risky that that that space was like really blowing up, getting supersaturated, super competitive. We were kind of the pioneers and it just, it felt like it felt like we were kind of wise enough at the time to see around the corner that it was just too crowded, too competitive and you know, not everyone was going to make it to the finish line and so we kind of just took that opportunity when we could and definitely don't regret it, wow goodness, how exciting when you were going through that process, what is it?

00:17:29Edit And this might sound like a really stupid question, but like what is it that buyers are actually looking for in a business? And I mean like is it revenue? Is it profitability? Is it like customer awareness in the market? What's interesting to a buyer, I mean all of those things really, I think you have to have like a sort of every box checked, you know, obviously revenue was very important like year over year growth is very important. They want to see you growing at a certain percentage over a year. They want to see really strong customer engagement. I think now it's so heavily like everything is like subscription based. So I think that's such a big piece of the puzzle for a lot of brands. Again, this was sort of like pre amazon. I mean it existed but not in the way it does now. It was pre social media. It was just starting. So now all of those things like hold value, like when you think about your social engagement and the rest. But I think even that might be starting to lessen a bit because social media instagram is just so noisy as well.

00:18:32Edit It's hard to quantify like the value there, especially when it comes to like true authentic engagement. But yeah, I mean, I think ultimately what makes your business valuable is the pool. You know, it's the growth. It's not how much I can spend to push this out the door. It's like, how much are you spending? What's your return? How much are you paying for that customer? And obviously the less you can pay for a customer, the much sexier the deal is with blue thread. We never did any traditional advertising. There was no social media. Like word of mouth was incredibly strong. I mean, the product at the end of the day, it was like so experiential. But yeah, we never really spent a lot there. And I think that was probably a very attractive part two. Mm hmm. Is it publicly disclosed how much you sold the business for And if so, are you able to share what that exit looks like? I think it is. It was like somewhere around 25 million. And then we stayed on for a couple of years and then we had an additional turnout that was tied to sales. Right. Okay. So you stayed with the business for a few years afterwards to kind of keep growing and keep that momentum and then you're able to step away.

00:19:38Edit Did you also have to say like, oh, I won't create another business in the same kind of category? Yeah. So we had a non compete after or not period was over and after we left and we had this probably like a couple of years of non compete where we couldn't work for another juice brand. Just totally fine because we were juice fatigued at that point. Done with the juice. Yeah. And so yeah, I want to actually Kind of merge into business # three because we kind of spoke a little bit about ISO and why you thought the timing potentially wasn't right there. What do you think was like the takeaways that you are able to use from business number one. Kind of like the blueprints from local pun intended. The blueprints you use from number one that still work today in building a business and the things that you really had to shift and do differently in today's landscape. Right? It's a good question. I think we think about that a lot and kind of see what we can apply and try and look back at that experience, definitely not forget some hidden gems there and what we can learn the takeaway and honestly, it's a very different world now.

00:20:50Edit Yeah, super different. Yeah. I mean pandemic aside, even before that, it's like, again, social media didn't exist. Direct consumer did not exist. Like really, it was crazy that we were shipping people juice. It was insane. one thing that has not changed is that obviously your product has to be really good. Like, there's just no getting around shitty garbage in a in a can, the garbage in a bottle. It's like if your product isn't good, it's just, it's not going to go anywhere. So we spent a lot of time and a lot of money getting the product to the point where it is actually quality. Like people crave it. Like it is efficacious. It is delivering on the promise and not just from a taste standpoint, but from a functionality standpoint. So that's key and that hasn't changed. And I find it shocking even, you know, sometimes when I taste some products that are on the market and I'm like, who greenlit this product? This is shocking to me that people actually consume this. You know, obviously I won't name any names, but I get like, you're in such a hurry sometimes you just want to get to market and you wanna be done with the R.

00:21:56Edit And D. Because it's such a pain in the past. That's incredibly expensive. But you know at the end of the day, if you don't have a good product like you're kind of screwed. And so another very applicable rule from blueprint days is people. And you know, my partner and I have still partners were like officially work wives. But beyond that it's truly like you have to make sure you're surrounding yourself with the right people. And we basically tapped a lot of the same partners that we had for blueprint, whether it was like a creative agency or I mean it's so valuable to have that experience in that shorthand. So that's been key. I think in like keeping the pace and going faster and the other thing is just persistence specifically when it comes to educating. I think one of the biggest challenges of brand has potentially at least in this space is education and the cost to educate consumers is high. And so when you have a concept or product that is somewhat complicated, you know, we're not selling a cookie, we're selling a functional latte that has the word mushrooms in it, which is like what l are you talking about?

00:23:05Edit And I've never even heard of these mushrooms and like what do they do again? I mean it's kind of like the hour long conversation that goes into describing what the hell we're actually doing, it's very expensive. So with blueprint was the same way, I mean it was, people would literally look at me like I had three heads when I would say like, oh I have this like juice company, it's all about, you know, basically you do three days of juicing or five days of juicing and you don't consume anything but these like six cold pressed juices that we need And you're gonna pay us like $65 every day to do that. And just like, what are you talking about? How am I not gonna die? How am I gonna not eat for three days? You know? So it was a lot of explaining, a lot of educating and I think that's very applicable to what we're doing now. I find that the conversation is very much the same and like to explain the benefits, explain what you're doing. It's not a silver bullet, it's very much about prevention, long term health, et cetera. So how do you actually educate at scale? Like how do you have that hour long conversation in an easy to digest stackable piece of information?

00:24:11Edit It's a really good question. And if I knew we'd be in a much better position, I'll stay with blueprint. It was very word of mouth. So once you tap into say the early adopters and the enthusiasts, the ambassadors are super valuable. I think if you can find them and give them the tools to go out and evangelize and talk about the product in the same way that you would, because they have the enthusiasm, they have the knowledge. If you can give them the tools, that's one great way to approach educating the consumer because it always starts with them. And so with blue part, we were lucky that we did have a lot of, I mean they were hardcore, they were just like all they wanted to do was talk to other people about what they were doing and like it's sort of like superior kind of like tone, but it's probably not dissimilar with Earth and Star. I think, you know, once people understand functional mushrooms it is kind of like you want to talk about it, it's kind of mind blowing once you realize that the powers of functional mushrooms. But I think one surprising area that has been super valuable for educating its podcasts surprisingly, I mean instagram and social media in general I think is so noisy, it's so crowded, it's so visual, the attention span is so short, it doesn't really seem like the best platform to communicate the finer points of what we're actually trying to do here and we've done a little bit of testing on this and so far it has played out in that way, so podcasting has been way more effective than spending dollars on instagram and I think it's because you have a willing participant on the other end, they're willing to actually listen to the ad because they're choosing to listen to and engage in a very long and sort of intimate way.

00:26:01Edit And so if you have that trust Then once you drop in and add and or if it's like an advertorial where the host is talking about their own experience, there's that trust there and so that's really gone a long way and there's the attention span right? There is like the willingness to kind of sit through 30 whole seconds of like an explanation of something. So that's been like a very interesting and refreshing discovery because honestly the thought of being another voice in on Ig right now is slightly nauseating to me. I mean it's so interesting, you bring this up, I actually hadn't spoken about, you know, podcast advertising on the show before. No one's actually mentioned that as kind of their, their route and it makes so much sense when you say it. And I also feel like when I just think about myself consuming content on social media today, instagram feels so draining and so like, well, you know, I feel like Tiktok truly changed the vibe of instagram.

00:27:03Edit Everyone was like, oh, you know what, it doesn't have to be polished, it doesn't have to be static, boring, you know, make you feel bad about yourself, it can be fun quick, you know, and it totally shifted my perception of instagram. Obviously a podcast enthusiasts love to listen to shows and consume content that way. But specifically when it comes to instagram, I've like so seen a switch to how I feel about that platform versus something like Tiktok, it's so interesting how quick it's been. Yeah, and I don't even understand how it can keep going, but I guess it will, I mean facebook is still here, but it's interesting like I did not realize it was going to be as effective as it has been podcasting that is, and I know a lot of, you know, I've had conversations with other business owners where they're just like I'm taking all of my dollars out of instagram and putting it into like experiential in real life? I mean obviously it's hard to do now, but we're getting there again because I think and maybe we will feel even more of a backlash after we kind of like crawl out of our caves post pandemic to this yearning for in real life experiences again and like get off the phone, get off the zoom, get off the screens.

00:28:15Edit It just feels not good. It feels real icky. Now I agree. I'm with you. I feel that I'm so sick of the screen. Where is the business today. Like what does the team look like? What cool things can you shout about what's going on. So we officially launched about six weeks ago at retail, just been very exciting to see finally like real feedback and positive feedback. So we're at all the air one markets in L. A. That's a great audience for us, sort of like the destination for wellness discovery and you know, we have a very very skeleton team, my partner and I we have a couple of in house people who are doing social and customer service and outside of that everything is kind of bolted on, everything is outsourced. So our pr is outsourced, our creative agency is outsourced. We have an R. And D. Team like you can really get away with a skeleton crew for a very long time these days.

00:29:21Edit I mean there are so many groups that you can just hire so many consultants. So we are just launched at retail. We're obviously available on our website direct consumer, we will be on amazon in the next hopefully a couple of weeks. And then we have a lot of interesting sort of direct partnerships that have been going very well. So these sort of like hybrids of store like Foxtrot, I don't know if you know them but they're a new and kind of awesome retailer and they have real stores but they do, I think most of their business direct to consumer. So we kind of re sell through them and then you know of course we are finally at the point where we're going out with our little tin can and asking people for money. So you know, we're raising a seed round now. Like literally right now just starting to have these conversations, we've been self funded for the most part to date and you know, now it's time to go out and do a proper round, which is very funny because we've never raised money before. So it all feels very new and I have to say so far it's been somewhat of a soul destroying process, Oh no, you know, it's hard, it's hard to ask people for money.

00:30:33Edit It's hard to have those conversations, it's hard to sell yourself and your idea before it's been proven out in the market and basically everybody wants proof of concept before they write you a check. So the whole thing feels very chicken and egg to me and slightly frustrating, but we will persist and hopefully we can kind of like walk this line for a while more. But yeah, I mean it's not easy as female founders, I will say that I've been sort of in this space long enough to hear the conversations around me and the male lead startups who have been funded quite easily, very fast sometimes, like precede sometimes even before precede and so we unfortunately have not had that experience, which is kind of, you know, I will say it's a bit of a head scratch, especially because we have a track record of a successful exit and then like one that we bootstrapped, so it's kind of, it's, you know, it's been a bit frustrating on that front, but that is the goal, So hopefully we will close that round in the next few months if anybody's listening.

00:31:35Edit I mean I feel like you would be the master of persistence and you know that long journey well so I'm sure you're gonna get all the things that you want out of the round. What I also find mind blowing is You learn so much like you're totally up skilling in again a new thing that you've been in business since 2007, that's wild and yet now you're just learning this whole other side of things that you hadn't learned before. It's kind of amazing how much you just keep learning and keep up skilling and adding to your little pile of stuff that you know. Yeah, I mean sometimes I'm like wow I actually know quite a bit in this space and again it's obviously a very different landscape in a very different time but the two, you know, blueprint compared to Earth and Star in terms of just the business model alone are so different. You know, if if I didn't have capital right now, just personally I would not be able to start this, I wouldn't be able to boot strap it on my own. It's just a very different model two shelf stable product, it's very inventory heavy blueprint was made to order, I could go to the store, I could buy a juicer.

00:32:43Edit I mean it was literally like that's why it was cash flow positive from day one. The heavy lifting on this brand on Earth and Star is heavy. So I'm learning about this type of model as well and it's quite different. Mm very interesting and exciting. What do you think your key piece of advice is for women who have a big idea and want to start their own business for women know that it would be different for men or women. I mean I guess you know, and I feel like I have a lot of these conversations with friends who have business ideas often and I don't know maybe this is so fun. I'm just trying to say it without sounding like totally negative and insulting. But I'm thinking like what I tell myself sometimes is like not every idea that I have is like an awesome idea that should be pursued. Like I mean that sounds very negative but I have to like check myself very often and it's like oh that's like funny or whatever, maybe I should do.

00:33:47Edit And they're like, oh no, that was not necessarily like the best idea. Like move on, move on and try something else. I think I don't know what I would tell people is like probably what so many other people would say is just talk to a lot of people about your idea. You know, if you have an idea for something get as much feedback as you can. Like research it a lot. Don't get like analysis paralysis with it to the point that you don't ever actually do it, but I think it is important to get feedback and to have conversations and You know, it's always surprising to me how many people, if you reach out to them are so willing to sit down with you for 10 minutes and just say like, Hey, like yeah, sure. Pick my brain, happy to give you feedback. Like I'm happy to do. I feel like I had these types of conversations all the time and they're valuable. People ask me, you know, if they could pick my bread and I asked plenty of people, you know like, hey, can I just like Talk to you about this idea for like 10 minutes, want to get your take and sometimes that can be really, really enlightening and can reveal something that maybe you never thought of.

00:34:58Edit So I think it's interesting to get as much as many different perspectives as possible. Mm Yeah, I love that. That's a really good one. At the end of every episode, I asked a series of six quick questions, Some of them we might have touched on, but we'll go through it anyway. Question number one, What's your, why? Why are you doing what you're doing? Oh God, I don't know, it's funny, everyone in the beverage industry is like why are you doing this again? Haven't you learned your lesson? I don't know why, why is like this will make people feel better. Like, this is something that people need truly, I think it's like a it's so beneficial for everyone's health and it's so undiscovered and untapped. So the y is like, because we need it. Love time. Love it. Question number two is what do you think this could apply to this business? Or blueprint? Cleanse. What do you think has been the number one marketing moment that had made your business pop?

00:36:07Edit Oh, I'll use blueprint for this example because it's just hysterical because it's back in the day when like Oprah ruled with like, you know, if you wrote a book and it's like, oh my God, Oprah's Book Club. Like the moment Oprah talks about you, you're like, you know, your website broke. So second to Oprah, sort of like next wave of Oprah during that time was like these digital, like subscription. I don't know if you know, Daily candy jelly candy back in the day. They were one of the first kind of like, think about like an early goop. It's like an early newsletter and they had such a crazy reach and a readership. And so they picked us up and you're, you know, halfway through year one and it literally like shut down our website, like phones exploding. Like we couldn't, we didn't have the band with it just, it sounds so beta and funny now, but it really put us on the map and it's talk about a time when it just wasn't that noisy on the internet. Yeah, exciting. Breaking the internet literally our website broke question Number three is where do you hang out to get smarter?

00:37:11Edit What are you reading or listening to or subscribing to? It's not clubhouse. Um I mm where do I go to get smarter? I mean, honestly, I guess I'll just come back to this again. But I think it's podcasts. I listen to so many podcasts and I think it's because I can, it's sort of like dove tailed off this discovery of audibles. And I was like, oh, I can like plow through more books if I'm listening to them than physically holding a book in my hand. Which is not as romantic as I'd like it to be. But it's effective. And I find that to be true podcast. So I find that if I can search a subject, if I want to get more of like a condensed version, sometimes it's a really great resource for learning. I mean listening to podcasts, finding podcasts that have obviously subjects that you're interested in. I mean you can go really deep on some of these podcasts. So that's I mean, I feel like I've learned so much from that mm Absolutely. Any in particular that you recommend. Mm it gets a little dorky sometimes. Like, I don't know.

00:38:14Edit I feel like hardcore history Didn't see that one coming. Did you? No, I think a lot of these wellness podcast. I think our podcast is actually good. Alright, well, but you know, I think anyone who is interviewing experts on subjects that you're interested in steve Gondry has a great podcast, he's a doctor, he's sort of all about Lichtenstein's like the lectern dude, you know, my body green, I think does a good, good job on their podcasts. They have a good, but also they're getting a little too celebrity focus Now. I like the dorky experts. Like I want to go deep on like one subject, you know, so it's kind of like, there's so many, I find if you search by subject, it's a lot more effective than searching like the title of the podcast. Yeah, that's true. Yeah. And of course Dax Shepard great. I'm going to link those below in the show notes for anyone that's listening. Question number four is how do you win the day? What are your AM or PM rituals, flash habits that keep you feeling successful, motivated happy etcetera.

00:39:16Edit Oh my God, am I winning the day? I don't know, did I win the day today here yesterday? I mean I think things that keep me motivated night tennis, I like to play a little done. I haven't had that before on the show. No, I know, I wish I could say something like I start every morning with meditation and then I do it again at four o'clock and I always drink by like X, y and z in the morning, but I really don't, I mean I definitely take a lot of supplements and I feel like that does a lot for me, obviously I take a lot of functional mushrooms but I don't have like such a specific routine, I mean I have like two kids and I feel like I'm always sort of catching up with myself so I don't know, I think I win the day if I'm not talking negatively about the things that I didn't do, I feel like that's kind of like I'm like you know what if I can end the day with saying something like it didn't do everything on my list today and that's okay, I did a lot and I'm making progress and I'm all about micro progress and micro steps that is like winning the day for me, it's like I did some of those things that's fine, all about the micro Progress and the Micro steps that 1% just be 1% better in whatever it is just aimed for the 1% and then the compound effect over a couple of years time is going to be crazy.

00:40:43Edit Exponential. It is, yeah. Question number five, where are we up to if you only had $1,000 left in the business bank account, where would you spend it? It's a great question because we do have $1,000 left in our business-account again. Any investors who are listening, if I had $1000 left in my business account and I already have my product done, it's ready to go, it's a hypothetical, you can have the product, it can be ready to go. I think I would spend it on podcast advertising that is like, sorry, this whole episode has been about how great podcasts are, but now, I mean, I think that's been like the greatest return for us. Mhm Yeah, that's so interesting. I love you really cool and question number six, last question, how do you deal with failure? What's your mindset and approach when things go to ship? I think it's okay. I'm not one to get hung up on past failures. I definitely don't spend a lot of time looking back and I don't like to play the show with a game because it just is absolutely useless.

00:41:52Edit It's fine to analyze things and like learn from the past, but I don't know, failure is not something that I look at through like such a negative lens and I see people who are just often paralyzed by it to the extent that they will never try something. I think that's so horrible, like, you know, that's just it seems so boring to not have ever tried. I don't know, I mean, I think there's nothing wrong with failure. I think it's just all learning, it's like there's nothing, you know, and it's, I feel like I have this conversation constantly with two Children who are revealing themselves to be extremely competitive and to the extent that like sometimes they don't want to try things because they think they're going to fail. And I find this just like fascinating. So I'll have conversations with my kids around this often and I'm really having a conversation with myself, so I don't know, I feel pretty good about failure. I think we should all be failing a lot more and I think we should be talking about it more because you know, for every fantastic, you know, success story that you hear where the startup, like did X, Y and Z and this brand had the shiny exit, There were a lot of failures to get there and sometimes there are a lot of other failed brands even before that one that you never heard of because they were failures.

00:43:02Edit So I don't know you have to keep that in mind. Mhm totally keep going with the flow. Keep moving forward. Yeah, let's continue. Thank you so much for taking the time to be on the show today and share so much of your journey, which is incredible. Love it. Love it all. Love what you're doing now. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you.


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