Today on the show we’re learning all things TikTok from the TikTok queen herself, Sandy Lin.
You might be like me and followed Sandy’s account back when It was called Small Business Tips (now @bysandylin). Well, She grew her account to a few hundred thousand followers sharing tips to help other founders and now she’s built an empire out of it, with a tech business lunching soon. Creobase is the platform where creators connect with high-growth brands, manage collaboration, and get paid instantly.
You know I love to harp on about TikTok and this is your step by step plan to getting started.
And if you’re on TikTok, let’s be friends there! Find me at @dooneroisin, I’ve been having so much fun creating quick biz breakdowns and sharing founder money mistakes.
Please note, this transcript has been copy pasted without the lovely touch of a human editor. Please expect some typos!
Hello Sandy, welcome to the show. Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to have you here today. I wanted to give everyone some context about you. You have a huge tiktok following. I have your account here. Let's see exactly. 386,000.6, million likes. That's so exactly. That is some crazy sh it. But for context, I've been following you for what feels like forever when we're talking about the online kind of world because you follow someone for like a year or two years and you just like, you can see so much change in that time, but I feel like I've been following you for, I don't know what feels like a really long time and I've been such a fan girl of your account back when it was still called small business tips and you, I don't know if you were just getting started at the time, but you were doing a lot of like the dancing videos and you know, the pointing to things and like having so much fun with Tiktok.
00:03:41Edit So I'm really excited to have you on here. I've been harping on about Tiktok a lot recently on the show and I'm excited for your wisdom. I'm excited for these pearls. Yeah, I know, I'm the biggest Tiktok advocate for literally anyone business owner, content creator marketer, anyone need to get on the Tiktok especially now, I think it's still in the growing phase. This is like the best opportunity that after instagram in like 2015 or 2014 now is the time I'm with you. I obviously don't have any kind of success the way that you have. But I've been posting a lot and someone gave me a piece of advice recently where they were like, oh, you should just like, mix up your content, try something new because I felt really, like, not happy with the direction of my Tiktok account and so I wasn't like I stopped posting on it and you know, who knows where I'd be if I had kept going like when I was growing back in the day, but basically stopped for a real long time and then someone gave me this piece of advice, another podcast host actually, And she was like, just, you know, start posting and gave me a few kind of ideas and I did the first one I posted now has like 270,000 views, and in like three weeks I've grown by like 5000 followers and I'm like, what?
00:04:58Edit That's crazy, and like, that's not a huge amount of growth, but like, it's still impactful, you know what I mean? I always say that like, if you're not happy when you're creating content, people can pick that up and pick up your energy and your contents for some reason just doesn't perform well, but when you're happy with your content and content and you feel energetic people understand that and it showed up on the algorithm, it's magical. And I've changed my contents quite a bit, if you follow me for a while, like, you know, I changed my target audience the way I talk, the way I present my style, everything just because like, I feel like this is who I represented myself right now and I'm okay with that and my audience will grow with me as well. Yeah, I love that. That's such a good piece of advice and I think that's definitely what happened to me, like I was I just didn't love the direction, like I, you know, had a few kind of videos that went really well and then I just started growing really quickly. So I started doing that same style, but I didn't actually like that style. And so then I was like, I don't want to do this anymore, I don't want to post those kind of videos.
00:06:03Edit And then I changed to a new style like back in the day. And then I was also not happy with that style, but also not getting any views anymore. And so then I just stopped, I gave up and now I've come back to it and I'm having so much fun. I just like really enjoy creating those videos besides any hate or like snarky comments that I get. But you know, besides that, it's amazing. It happens, it happens anyway, I'm going to get into more of these questions down the track. Let's get started by you giving us a little bit of an intro. How do you like to introduce yourself? Oh my God, this is such a funny question, because I am the worst giving myself intro and then I always have like someone else give me my intro and I'm like, can I steal that intro for myself. But yeah, a little mini intro about me is very fast, like I'm a content creator by day and then the entrepreneur by night been into content creator on Tiktok for 1.5 year talking about creator economy and currently a founder of creator creator based also building in creator economy as a creator hoping to bring creator much more monetization strategies and making collaboration much easier.
00:07:18Edit I'm so excited to learn more about career base. I know this is your next big thing that you've been working on behind the scenes that you're kind of bringing out into the world. But could we backtrack a bit first and kind of get a bit of your background into your entrepreneurial path that's led you to this point? Yeah. So I started out as an e commerce owner actually um started in when I was a software here in college. I launched this like super like weird website, like a drop shipping dock website and then I just drop shipping like from Ali Express any type of dog product that you can think of and I read that website for three months because dropping shipping was the easiest to get started out and I didn't have any money as a college students. So I started out with that for like 23 months, get some revenue and understand how like the world of e commerce work and facebook advertisement work. Then I was like okay I don't think this is gonna work in a way that I was going to be happy with my products. So I literally pivoted into handmade items because I don't have the money to get into manufacturer.
00:08:23Edit So I remember went into joan's store which is in us, we have this fabric store called Joanne and I went in there and I bought a sewing machine and got a lesson and then bought some fabric and started making doc and denis and color. That's amazing. It was crazy. And I was like, you know what? I'm just going to post it on like, like I posted on Shopify and then I started my roof. So the company is called roof. I started on my instagram instead of sending out influencer those bandanna just like gifting things. And then I posted that and it's sold out for the first time when it went up and sold out like holy crap that's actually gonna work. So I just started hand making everything for a year straight to a point that I couldn't start handmade anymore. Then I went into manufacturing. So that's my background, e commerce is my background. Oh my God. Okay. I have a few questions about this question. No one. If you were to say how much you spent to like launch that business. Obviously it was like, I guess what do you think, what did you spend to actually launch to like actually cost?
00:09:30Edit How much money to launch? Yeah, well it costs probably 100 202 $100 to set up the shop of my job shipping store. I bought the domain, integrating my LLC incorporated that bought like, you know the subscription and that's it. Like I launched a store overnight and then put like $100 in pay advertisement and I was like, let's see what happened. And I remember this guy, my first customer from Arizona, he bought a like backpacking thing for his thoughts and like damn like stupid shipping doesn't shift to him for like three months. And I was like oh my god that's that poor customer service but I had no control because there was a drop shipping store but it was a great experience. Um But yeah yeah you learn a lot from those kind of like weird things that happen and you're like well I need to move from this. Are you able to share like within that year what kind of revenue you grew it to? I always ask the money question. No pressure to answer. But I ask it all the same, what did you grow it to?
00:10:32Edit definitely the first year we grow it to 55 figures. And then I dumped literally all my money back into development and and then like I developed my own patterns and then dump it into production. And then the second year we grew into six figures. Oh my god, that's so cool. Is the business still going today? Are you still involved? No we got actually offered a deal by back then it was um oh my god I forgot the company names. He was, it was a super big company and they actually finance to e commerce store so you can put in your like put in your company and you get evaluation and then lend you money. They changed their name to something. Yeah, exactly. Claire Bank. Yes. So I was actually working with them on content creation and then they were like, I have my store on the side. They were looking for a dog accessory business as their model company. So they actually acquired that company and got like became clerical. Oh my God, that's so cool. So do they buy small businesses under their umbrella as well?
00:11:39Edit Yeah. Back then it was used to not sure exactly if they buy them, but that company specifically is used for their marketing sample. So they actually bought that company for their marketing sample. That's can you share how much you sold it for? I wouldn't be able to close it agreements signed. But yeah, it wasn't like a huge chunk but it was like a great um I was like okay, well this is a good validation. I'm like, oh my God, there's someone who want to buy it and I kind of want to get out of it as well because I really want to go into tech. So I was like okay, this is a perfect transition where I can get some money and then dump it into something else that I really like as well. Oh my freaking God, that is so cool. Like first kind of acquisition at in your early, early 20s, right? Yeah, it was 2020. Um yeah it was 2020 and it happened because of Tiktok um I got on Tiktok and then I got connected with the Grove manager of cleric. Oh and then that's how it happened. That is so cool.
00:12:43Edit Okay, let's talk about Korea base. You got the money from Clear co you put it into a new business or is there something in between or is that the next phase? Yeah, there was something between you go to the in between, let's let's move on to that bit. There's so much happened and Tiktok really bumped everything up for me. So I started Tiktok june of 2020 and then launched small business tip underscore which is my, handle them start sharing about e commerce stores, anything that small business owner base and I just felt like wow there's so much small business owner that doesn't know the resources that are out there and I wish that I had this type of support when I first launched. So we started this community on Geneva which is a community platform to gather all those small business owners of Geneva. Yeah, I love Geneva as well. And then they can start talking to each other formulated community. So we started helping business owner launched their own company marketing focus, helping um company get onto Tiktok says more of a service based business and then that's when it started and now the agency is still running as right now and still making great revenue and now I have a side business which is claire combs and soon going to be my full time, I'm not clear coat, I'm so sorry, but I'm guessing Yeah, exactly, no, I got it, I got it.
00:14:04Edit Oh my God, I wish right, I wish my company we all wish we all wish shout out to Coleco, loved them have been speaking to them a lot lately and they're so fun, so fab. Okay, where do we want to go with this? I still want to learn more about career base. When's it coming? What's the lay down? Who's it for? Who needs it, tell us everything. Yeah, definitely. So it is coming the very, very end VP version, It will be here hopefully in spring very soon April will be launching our first phase creo bases a new creator platform that allows you to take control of your creator communities and career career. We provide literally any tools to make creators make collaboration easy, so we help you monetize with brand deals, manage your collaboration and get paid out instantly. So it's made for any type of creators that are on Tiktok if you are a subset email writers or any type of podcaster, it is made for you.
00:15:05Edit I love that for me, that means made for me. Do you have to have a huge following on Tiktok or can it be for micro creators to Yeah, so we actually created that platform, having my were creator focus instead of influencer focus where we actually like to target micro nano and medium influencer or content creator rather than mega. So yeah, wow, that's so cool. Great. I can't wait for the M V p holy moly. Okay, let's focus on some Tiktok stuff and you're, you know, previously known as small business tips account, I read that you gained something next level crazy like 275,000 followers in the space of like two months. That is wild. Yeah, I forgot it has been a while, but within the first months to I gained over 150 k or something like that and then it quickly grew to 300 k within the six months and then it went back in it because I stopped posting for a little bit and then I found my groove back a little more than we started continue posting.
00:16:17Edit But I went on Tiktok very, very early on when I was on there, there was very handful of business creators that were on there. So that's why I was able to grow super fast. That was the type of content that worked at that time. So I went on a perfect timing too. Yeah, like right place, right time to do your thing, let's do a bit of a deep dive. If you were like giving, you know, the pep talk to a small business owner in the e commerce space who either hasn't started Tiktok but knows they should be on Tiktok or maybe has just started there like kind of dabbling but hasn't found their feet and hasn't found any momentum yet. What is your step by step? Kind of like starting guide? Yeah, definitely. I love that question because I get asked a lot of that, my starting guy is go onto Tiktok and start engaging with the type of content that you want to be created or you want to be known as. So for me it was like business or social media. So then I go onto Tiktok and hashtag and search small business tips or social media and I see the type of creator that are underneath and start following them and go into study the type of content they make, what makes them pop what works and what doesn't once I do that I teach is the algorithm, the people that want to be following and who my target audience was that way.
00:17:37Edit When you started creating all the algorithm already know who is your target audience. So that's my first step. And the second step is creating shitload of content on my draft. I will yeah, I will suggest you to get comfortable seeing yourself speaking with yourself on camera because that was my biggest pain point when I first started out, it was super cringe e to see myself and talking to myself, so draft like do anything on the draft to get comfortable and once you're comfortable start creating your content and how you're going to be able to strategically kind of create that type of content is to study the people who you follow and go through their video banks and see, okay, what type of content to pop off for them, the topics that pop off for them and then kind of mimic that type of topic in your own way and your own style and showcase that. Mhm. So for you, you picked like small business tips in the beginning, does that mean you were then kind of thinking about e commerce or you just went with e commerce and that worked for you or did you like strategize around that?
00:18:48Edit Or how did it come about? Yeah, So it came about naturally because you're understanding of like what you're passionate about, you want to go on the platform that you feel like the most comfortable of yourself, you have the most passionate and most knowledge and and at that time for me was a small business owner and I was very integrated in the small business space. So I went on there, I had no idea why I started talking about it, but it just felt right, right? So For people who like cooking, it fell right to go onto the platform when you just start cooking, right? So it's, you gotta find that niche of your passion, but it doesn't mean that when you stick with your niche, you gotta stick with your niche, you can talk about anything, right? So you can have 80% or 70% of your content more focused on your, you know, like the topic that you like. And the other thing about your life, the passion that you have other than that niche, just so that you don't get overwhelmed with the constant talking about that specific type of like niche. If you're on the lookout for ways to make your business sail smoothly from one quarter to the next look, no further, hubspot helps your business get shipshape with an easy to use crm platform that aligns your business and delivers a seamless experience for your customers.
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00:21:27Edit Do you think that for like say a business owner who owns an e commerce store like yours, like a pet store online. Should they be creating and focusing on building a brand account or should they be focused on creating a creator behind the brand account as in like personal name versus a brand business name. Yeah, definitely the ladder. Um, but it also depends on the skill of your business. If the skill of your business is medium to large size then have both. I suggest having both so that you can have your own personal one where people view you as the entrepreneur, the, the expiration piece and then the business line where you can be or sell the more promotional. But if you are in the smaller skill, do your own personal thing because people actually connect better with a person rather than a logo. We see that a lot on Tiktok where people actually don't like following like business Tiktok that much. If they're just promoting everything. If you guys can do it such well, Such a great job as like duo lingo, then that's perfect.
00:22:33Edit It's funny and it's integrating to Tiktok culture. Exactly. But I would say like started with your own personal because it's more personal mobile. And I think just going back to what you said a moment ago, you gave a really practical piece of advice there around start just by creating some drafts to get used to yourself on camera and find your groove and kind of get over that cringe fear that you have and then start posting like kind of get into your own rhythm and then start posting. That's definitely something I really struggled with and probably why I didn't like my content in the beginning because I felt super awkward. I felt like I didn't have a voice yet. I didn't know what I wanted to say or how my body should look even on camera. Like I was really awkward. Whereas I mean my style now, I don't do any dancing or anything like that. But yeah, I had, it took a while to find like what I was happy to do and didn't feel cringe doing, you know, I think that's a really great piece of tactical advice going back to, You know, that early growth for you, 250K, a few 100 k in the first six months. How much were you posting?
00:23:36Edit And how much time were you spending on Tiktok holy crap. It was also quarantined at that time. So I have lots of time and then I just saw my business at that time. So it was a period of time, but I had nothing to do other than like study and I don't study it. So like I just had nothing to do. So I post like 3-4 times a day on Tiktok every single day nonstop for six months straight. So that it was again, I don't know how I do it. I still don't and I don't think that it's a growth strategy for everyone. Like you can post one post per day or three posts per week and still grow that achieve the same amount of success. If you understand your energy, understand your audience and understand the style of the content that you're creating health spending minimum of four hours per day, 4 to 5 hours per day on Tiktok at that time. And was that like just creating the content or was that creating the content and also engaging researching.
00:24:39Edit Looking like being part of the Tiktok community. Yeah. So something amazing thing about Tiktok then was like, it's trending sounds every single day is very different, right? So you've got to be integrated in a way. So I spent probably two hours Creating Tiktok and then not three hour looking on Tiktok. And it was fascinating because it was such a new thing at the time. So you just like scrolling. It's like endless of scrolling and information. Um, and for me it was like doing research and understanding of what is the upcoming train trend and how can I capitalize on that? Where is like this niche going through, who's a content creator that pop off lately and how can I connect with them and a lot of time is networking to networking with other creators to create that sense of community with each other. That is so cool. Do you think if you were posting three or four times a day now you would have that same kind of quick growth or has the platform algorithm changed? I'm not gonna lie a probably, well Tiktok is a very, we were based platform.
00:25:50Edit So quantity definitely works on Tiktok. The more you post, the more chances you have to get on before you page and not only that you're giving yourself the like the idea of like what works and what doesn't. So you're testing it out. So the more you post, the more understanding of what works and what doesn't. So you get better at posting later on this girl, Nadia komodo, she actually grew super super fast on Tiktok. She was posting 30-40 times per day and you did not hear that wrong, like whoever is listening, they're probably like what? But she grew within three months, two million followers. I'm pretty sure she is the founder of august attempt on company. So she was advertising for her company, but at the same time talking about period Power and everything like that surrounding her business? I think she will be the perfect case study for any business owner out there who are wanting to get onto Tiktok, but we don't need to post like Nadia because no one really had that time to be honest. I don't know how she does it.
00:26:52Edit I don't know how she does it. Well, you know what actually interviewed her the other day. I know how she does it. She shares it in the show. She's just like, hey, I document every single thing. I probably, she said she only spends two hours a day on Tiktok. She's like, I know how to do a video so quickly right now that I can just like whip them up. She was posting 50 times a day in the beginning. Now. She was like, you know the other day I posted 16 times a day. Like she's like, it's up and down, But it's so crazy. I mean, she has 2.5 million followers. Like she totally leaned into that platform and this isn't very long ago either. She didn't start during the pandemic. She started like 10 months ago, like something like the Power is still there to like absolutely dominate in Tiktok. Like that's for sure for you though. Just going back to your channel. Like how did you actually know what to post? Like obviously you're doing the research, you're looking at trends. But like were you planning, did you have like a spreadsheet where you were like, here's what I'm going to post this week or this month or just today or were you just like in the moment? This is what I feel like doing. Yeah. So I used to have expression, I used to have a notion document of like the type of like post I want to do and then like the time frames and all that.
00:28:03Edit And then I used to patch contents a lot as well. But then I realized that it's, it's, I don't really like that style of content creation because it doesn't match up with my energy that well. So I did that for a while and it worked. I could send out a lot of content but I got burned out super fast. So now what I do is that I actually just started like whenever I have ideas I would just write it down onto my notepad on my iphone. So I have a list of like content idea that I maybe see on Tiktok or I see it on article. I read a lot of articles in your space because you're going to be able to get so much idea, read a lot of article podcast Youtube. That's where you're gonna be able to get a lot of your juices flowing. So I do a lot of that, write it down. I don't write down the median median greedy, but I just write down the topic in general and then I saved the south throughout the entire week that I'm looking at Tiktok and then I would just like Do Tiktok whenever I feel like it. Like if I today I don't have the energy, I don't do Tiktok, but today I have a great energy and high energy level.
00:29:07Edit Then I'll batch like the entire like five Tiktok. So don't have like, I don't have a set amount date that batch. But whenever I feel like I have a high energy, that's when I do contents. Yeah, I totally love that. I feel like that's a bit the same vibe. I tried to be way too technical and planned back in the day and then that really made me feel like unhappy with that kind of content. Whereas now it's like, I just do it on the spot. Like I create what I'm going to create and then I actually feel what I'm going to create some piece of advice that I got given, which also just totally changed everything for me on Tiktok was if you have a video that like kind of starts gaining traction or starts getting a little bit of virology, literally just keep repeating that same video. Don't try to do like this other video and this other video and when I heard that I was like, oh, okay. So like I can totally see which videos are always performing and I can see which videos aren't. And the videos for me were these like, it's my style on Tiktok.
00:30:10Edit I create these little business breakdowns of businesses from the people who I interview on the show And I do them in like 5 to 10 points really quick. Put them with graphics, like whatever the videos that don't perform was anything relating to me. Like people just don't care, they don't know who I am. Like, they don't like, you know that they were used to these these really informative kind of like entertaining business breakdowns. And so when I would do a post, that's like here's something about my podcast or something, people aren't interested. And so I was like, oh, okay. And then I just totally doubled down on doing the business breakdowns. And I think that's also like why I've been able to grow. Is that what you do to, yep. Exactly. Like I tested so many different types of content and then I just see which one did as well and I just repeat like allergic repeat. Um you'll see a lot of my video have the same type of talking point and formatting because if it works, it works right. But to a point that it doesn't work and you have to like start finding the new way. So what I do is like, I will test out different style, I'll do like this sinking talking in the car cutting fruit for when I'm folding my laundry drinking wine, like test out any type of content and that any type of fermenting contents and just see what works and then just double down on that exactly what you said.
00:31:29Edit Amazing. I love it. You've shared so many pieces of gold around Tiktok. Is there any kind of like final tip worth mentioning or like your number one key piece of advice for people who are just getting started on Tiktok have fun. Like don't think too much, don't strategize too much. Don't think too much. Look into the Tiktok community and just start creating and that's it. Right? So do it before. Like don't overthink anything because we tend to just over analyze and just don't do anything. Right? So yeah, yes. Don't let that cripple you from creating in general. Okay. I wanted to, I've been talking, you're talking your head off about Tiktok, but I wanted to get your kind of top three tips when it just comes to the e commerce side of things. Obviously a lot of people listening in our building, e commerce brand, you know, a lot about that. You've built a brand from a drop shipping brand, like branded business account that was handmade through to an acquisition, which is crazy. What were your top three kind of like key learnings in e commerce.
00:32:33Edit Yeah. So my top one key learning with my, when I was so in canceling my entire, my line was delegation delegating your business is absolutely crucial and I used to be every single thing like I didn't have any contractor employee or nothing and I was Burning out working 10 hours, 15 hours. I don't even know per week. So delegating, it's great like you are great at what you're doing, but there's someone out there or even better at the things that you don't know how to do. So do that. The money you spend will be back because you're focusing on what you do the best. So yes. And then the second one will be influencer marketing are freaking powerful. Social media and influencer marketing are not going anywhere. It's just going to continuously growing especially for e commerce gifting or collaboration. Pay collaborations, definitely marketing. I think there's so much that need to be talked about in the space and we didn't have a lot more time to talk about this.
00:33:35Edit But 80% of my business revenue came from influencer marketing when I was running e commerce stores third, I would say keep track of your finance finances the big piece. When I first started out, I didn't do any of my finance and it was a hit show when I went to my C. P. A. And he would say, what did you do over here? I didn't know I had to set aside 30% of my taxation and I was like, okay well now I got to do that. I was a very newbie business owner. I was like okay now I learned my lesson. So keeping track of all your like tool, your subscriptions, keep it in the list because you'll be subscribing to so many things and you just forget and lose track. Um So keeping up with your findings. Yeah I love that a really small but practical tip here is in my gmail I set up like folders for everything and so I have a folder for like any press that comes in but I also have a folder just for any invoices. So even if it's like my monthly invoice for like zoom, I don't open it but I just immediately file it there so I know that they all live in that one spot and like if I need to look back it's easy for me to like find everything.
00:34:44Edit I don't need to try and like search invoices. Great tip there. I don't know who gave me that but it changed my life. Okay what is the best and worst advice you've ever received in business? Yeah. Best advice is lunch fast. Iterate fast don't stall. And that actually came from that guy who from clerical that growth manager that gave me this advice because I was building small businesses hip at that time and I was a profession ist like professional like I was like I had to get this done, I gotta get this landing page beautiful. And he was like just do it like you're losing time to just lunch because preparation, you can probably one but like until you launch it, you're never going to know how the market look at your products, right or your or your company, so launch fast iterated and make it better. That is a great piece of advice. Yeah, like don't build a car, like build a vehicle first, I love that, that's so cool. And the bad advice, the bad advice, the bad life, that's something that you gotta think a little bit about.
00:35:51Edit Yeah, okay, always set goals. I know that sounds weird but like one of the bad advice I got is like always have intention and set goals in a way, I don't agree with that. It's that you, when you send intention and goals, you're making everything, sucking the fun out of it and when things are actually natural and good with good passions to actually exceed any goal that you set right? So um I always put Happiness and Passion 1st before intentions and goals if that makes sense. Yeah, I actually love that, I really love that and that focuses as well and just like making sure that you're like enjoying the journey, loving the day to day and that like joy aspect for it. I'm a big girl setter but I'm also someone who is really like into day to day joy and making sure that if I don't love what I'm doing, I'm just not going to do it and I like totally iterate or pivot away from those things that don't bring joy.
00:36:53Edit So true. Thanks for listening to this amazing episode. We are testing out something new here for the next while and we're splitting up each episode into two parts, the main interview part and then the six quick questions part to make them easier to listen to. So that's part one done. Tune into part two to hear the six quick questions.