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A business that‘s projected to do a sparkling $20M in 2020, with Packed Party Founder, Jordan Jones

Joining me on the show today is Jordan Jones, the Founder of sparkly lifestyle brand Packed Party.

Packed Party launched 7 years ago in 2013 after a lightbulb moment she had late at night; her mum had told her she needed to throw herself a pity party and basically - the rest is history!


Fast forward today Jordan has been named one of Forbes 30 under 30, the brand has had explosive growth and expanded to the likes of Wholefoods, Walmart and thousands of other retail stores. Her story is so inspiring and I came off this recording feeling so sparkly having had the chance to learn more about behind the scenes.


In this episode you’ll learn how Jordan took this side hustle from a $50,000 investment to a multimillion dollar company and her learnings in between.

Please note, this transcript has been copy pasted without the lovely touch of a human editor. Please expect some typos!


Jordan. Thank you so much for being on the show today. I'm so excited to dig into your sparkly brand Packed Party and learn all about it. Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be chatting with you all things packed party. We'll make it a party. It's monday morning here, but we'll make it a party. Love that I'm into a party. Um I want to Jump straight in and talk about the Pity Party that you had and the light bulb moment that led you to starting your business in 2013. Yeah, so now I mean I'm 30 years old, I was 23 way back then with that pity party. But they do happen. It was a good pity party to have little did I know it's uh strange looking back on and seeing how far packed parties come, but I've moved to san Francisco from Dallas texas.

00:04:53Edit Didn't know a soul was working in Silicon Valley at a job that I didn't love. And um I was just kind of really finding my way, you know, I didn't know anybody in the city. I called my mom, it was a friday evening. I didn't have any friends to go out with. I hadn't truly given the city a chance. I I do love san Francisco, but at that point I was like making this really daunting commute every day and I'm certainly feeling sorry for myself. And so I called my mom and she is a very Southern outspoken woman, she's like, just, I can't even with you, you're having a pity party, go to bed, basically hung up on me and I listened to her, thank gosh, because I did. I went to bed, it was fairly early and had a dream about sending myself a physical pity party package and woke up my light. My apartment was so small. I mean if you've been to san Francisco right, like it was a wonder that my bed didn't just pull out of the wall, but I popped my light on, it was right above my head and uh I wrote at the time, I mean the idea of writing a business plan, I had no idea about doing that.

00:05:58Edit That that seems really scary, but I just wrote down everything in my dream and I knew that I could sell these themed party for one care packages and I could call it packed party and then I went to work and looking like this is all that night, it's just packed party dot com exist. No, it doesn't exist like, so I just went to work piecing together what had come to me in this dream. So it was a good pity party to have really good feeding party to have. That's so cool and so exciting and so like what happened next? Because obviously you have the moment you've written the business plan, you wake up the next day and you're like, okay, yeah, I'm still into this, I've had some sleep. I've pondered a minute now what I mean, I stayed up pretty late like coming up with the ideas around what these themed glorified really just care packages party for ones would look like because I'm owning packed party that is, you know, everybody's like, oh my gosh, like you know, you've got to have so many parties and your personality like from the outside, I think it looks like I'm like very like loud and boisterous and always hosting people, but in reality, yes, of course I'm friendly, but I am somebody that like, I really enjoyed hosting just small gatherings and intimate groups.

00:07:07Edit I'm not necessarily somebody that recharges or gets energy from being around a ton of people. I really like to keep to myself in that way and I'm better for groups by being by myself and reading a book or whatever it is. And so our original logo was this girl with her, the package over her head, she was in a packed room, a packed party, right? The literal version. And then it was like all she needed. And at the time in 2013, really, all that was in the marketplace was subscription boxes, which is a very broke 23 year old girl. I was like, I can't have something tapping my credit card every month, you know? And then you turn out resenting the brand because you're like, okay, I've gotten sick of the subscription, I'm I've moved on, I've grown, you know, whatever. I've tried all the samples I need to try or it's the first thing to go. And I was like, you know what if we could do something different and we could create this experience for people and connect with them in this totally different way, which wasn't necessarily the most exciting revenue model, but I was so obsessed with the customer because I was the customer and so desperately needed that experience for myself, you know, to, to send myself this party for one or two, send a friend a party for one because curating a care package for a friend that's how to break up or just got engaged or had a baby or whatever it is, it's really expensive and exhausting.

00:08:26Edit And so I was like, wow, there's a hole in the marketplace for this and nobody's calling, you know, anything out there party package. That package is, they just don't exist. So that light bulb moment from there for me, I mean, I still had my full time job, but I just started working on it on the side and it was really a side hustle. The definition of a side hustle, the definition of a side hustle for sure. Until my side hustle got me fired. So I was fired from my job for packed party. I, you know, it's, it was actually the biggest blessing that ever happened to me, but at the time I had never been in trouble for anything or you know, very publicly fired. It was mortifying like I liked everybody I worked with, but they had kind of, you know, made clear that people weren't supposed to be working on things on the side, right? Like incubating on other ideas. But people in my office, it was a startup. And so people in my office, we're selling shoes on the side or candles or had little Etsy shops. And so I honestly didn't think enough of my business that I was like, oh, it's, you know, very like threatening and I'm going to be spending all this time on it, like I could be sitting on facebook or Pinterest all day, but instead, once I finished my work then I would work on packed party, I mean, I was not concerned with dating or at that point even really making friends.

00:09:47Edit I was like, oh my gosh, this is such a great idea and I'm the person, the person to execute it. Like, packed party is meant for me. And I found a lot of confidence in that really, in the beginning, I was like, you know, I think a lot of people early stage when you have an idea, oh my gosh, what are people going to think of my idea or what are people going to say about the name or where people gonna copy me? I mean, all those thoughts can very quickly flood into anybody's head when they're starting a business. And for me, those thoughts certainly were there. I'm a normal person. But the thought that this idea was meant for me and nobody could do it better. That confidence, very quiet, confidence really propelled me forward in the early days because I was like, this is, you know, I don't need your opinion. Like, I don't need the pact, you know, I don't need to know if you like the name packed party, it makes sense. I would buy this. I've done enough research on this, this is what I'm gonna do and I'm gonna go give it 1,000% shot and kind of, once I made that mental decision, it was full gas pedal from there, there was no stopping me.

00:10:54Edit Oh gosh, that is so cool. It's like the unwavering determination and like motivation to be like yeah, and also I think you would get that feeling of like, I'm going to show you like you fired me for doing something that like you should really be nurturing the people that are doing this on the side kind of thing. The side hustle vibe and yeah, missed opportunity as well for them to like be part of something that you were also creating for sure. I think, you know, I don't have any ill will towards anybody that I worked with or that fired me. Like I understand more than ever because I don't know that I necessarily, a lot of people that are doing something as a side hustle there Bill always asked me when did you know to quit, when is the right time to quit? And I think that's a really difficult thing for a lot of people that are starting something because they have their 9-5 that pays their bills that allows them to be really mentally stable so they can be creative for their side hustle. And for me, that decision really was just made for me and so I don't necessarily have the best answer.

00:11:59Edit I mean obviously I'm not that risk adverse because I did run forward with an idea and that the hardest part of having any idea or starting any business is certainly just starting, but I think, you know, you just know once you're really like turning a profit and you have, you've moved through all the inventory on your you know, initial order like and the numbers and the proof is always there that will allow you to kind of make those financial decisions that are best for you and then what's the worst that could happen right? Like okay, so you fail okay now what? Right, so I kind of got to that place with packed party, I was like I'm not gonna fail, this is gonna work but it didn't for you know, a long time like it was working after I was fired but not certainly to the level that I needed to live in san Francisco. So I ran instagram accounts for restaurants so I could eat for free. Oh which I was really good at social media. So I was like okay, you know, I can take these photos, I had gotten a camera for graduation and I just turned that into like a full time hobby.

00:13:03Edit I didn't even take photography in high school. So I just like was putting it on manual or no flash and then I would just go and take like all these beautiful photos of food for each of these different restaurants and I was kind of all encompassing right? So I'm like taking the photo posting the photo managing the account and I was doing it Way cheaper back in 2013 so that like you know paid for me to like somewhat live and then I tried walking dogs, I was turned away from walking dogs, I mean there was definitely some really humble experiences in there where I was like, okay, packed party has ruined my life, but um it might be worth it and there were certainly a lot of naysayers right that have like come around like people that treated me in the beginning like hmm, that's so cute and now they're like, oh my gosh girl, you know, remember like us way back in the day and like, uh huh yeah, like never going to be rude, but you don't forget the people that really believed in you and pushed you into and asked the questions early days and then the people that were like, yeah, that's great by, you know, so for me, I just kind of just put my head down and I was like, this is what I'm gonna do, these are the things that I'm most passionate about.

00:14:08Edit And before I moved to SAn Francisco, I made, I had this journal and I wrote a list of the things that make me happiest and I think it was this huge turning point for me and I encourage every entrepreneur or just really like friends that I have thoughtful conversations with around what should I do with my life and like, okay, well what is it that makes you tick, which is a really broad question, but when you fully focused, you know, you're not really in a coffee shop, you're just totally alone in the moment and you write down the things that make you happiest, there's a job that exists that involves all of those things, Tacos, puppies, whatever it is. Like for me it was photography and architecture and bright colors and disco balls and that is fact party. So none of those things matched up, but it really was how I manifested this job. So before I even had the dream, I was already doing the work behind the scenes. I didn't know it to bring packed party to life. I feel like you and I are so aligned.

00:15:11Edit I'm also a sparkle lover. I love what you've been doing on the website and on your instagram, it's so cool. I love it in those early days before you got fired from the job, did you have to invest a lot of money or did you have savings to start the business when you were at that stage of sort of like sourcing from different vendors and putting things into the box. What was the money side of things like early on in the beginning? Well I knew, so my dad will tell you to my dad didn't really overly believe in me and my mom and dad are together. They're amazing people, but my dad, not that I wasn't going to finish what I started because I was Denver I grew up in a house where I wasn't allowed to quit anything, like it was like, yeah, you're not so great at basketball, but we're going to finish the season. Um But this specific venture, like in college, like I was like making like lampshades and selling them to friends and so I wasn't always coming to my parents like, oh, like I have this great idea and I'm not going to start it.

00:16:12Edit Like those conversations had not happened before, but this idea specifically, my dad's like, you don't know anything about buying wholesale, you know, creating an online website, like how are you gonna do any of those things? And I was like, I you're right, I don't, but I'm just gonna figure it out. And so I actually, instead of getting money from my parents who weren't Particularly, I mean it's not like my parents are just billionaires and I was like, Hey, can I borrow $1 million? Like that wasn't an option for me either. But my grandparents were like, you know what, We could loan you $50,000. I paid a little interest to them. And um yeah, I used that 50,000 to start the business. And my first initial investment though was like really under 10,000, like I didn't, this is in 2013 when it wasn't major pay to play, there was no pay to play on Instagram. So that was the wild west, but facebook, I really, I didn't know to hire a digital agency or things like that. Of course now that our team has. Um so that $50,000 I mean that's a lot of money.

00:17:14Edit I don't care what you're doing in revenue, $50,000. I still treat a dollar $10. I tell our team, I'm like, y'all have no idea what it was like. I mean figuring out like I, even in our first office, it was this tiny bedroom in a victorian house that I paid rent on and I had convinced the landlord to give me lower rent because I would take the trash out. I would basically be like the property manager. So I mean, I had hustled from day one on this thing. I was like, I know that you know, it needs to look bigger, It needs like I put all the desks together, all those very like lonely, what you know like those nights that it would have been so easy to quit. I had all those moments kind of leading up to say like this is what I'm doing, I'm gonna, I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna make this happen. Um and now my grandparents are invested in this, I gotta make it happen for them, right, I gotta pay them back and what was the like the turning point or the step change where you were like, okay, I've like been going full steam ahead, but now I'm starting to see the rewards and I'm starting to see, you know those even really early on, like the first customers, the first kind of tribe of people that were coming in and you know, spreading the word getting involved.

00:18:26Edit What was that time like? And when was that sort of happening? Well it was 2013, so I had the dream in July, I started the business and launched online officially November seven, So 11 7, 2013 and I really like the first wave of people that were purchasing from us on our site and following us. I mean my mom was our first follower, right? Like it wasn't like, oh yeah, like my friend Rachel's o followed immediately and then my other, like I didn't have celebrity friends, I didn't have this like insanely deep network of influencers or anything like that. So I really do feel like I'm living proof if I can do it, anybody can do it because I started from the very, very bottom and really convincing and telling people that like we were legit this is a real business, you know, you can purchase from us to go to pack party dot com. So I wrote a buzzfeed article about myself, which you can really no longer do in the community section. So I wrote it in the third person. I mean I'm not kidding. Like I was nuts in the beginning and I then I posted it to every single one of my facebook friends walls, which, and then I just played it like, this is, this is crazy.

00:19:36Edit But I'm looking back and like what was I thinking? But I just didn't care. I was like, I have to get the word out about this idea, like it has to like leave my brain, you know? And there was, I just pleaded the fifth, I was like, oh yeah, like I think, I think my facebook was hacked like with this article thing and then my friends were like, did you like, and nobody thought, oh did you write this? That my friends were like, you're on buzzfeed? And I was like, yeah, I wrote that, you know, like, so I only told a few people that I did that, but so many people immediately I had, you know, it's no like trust, I had that no and sort of trust factor because I knew I couldn't go get on buzzfeed on my own. I knew I couldn't go get in people magazine on my own. I wasn't going to have some celebrity using my products right away. So I needed that validator and just instinctually made that happen and come to life. And then from there, I mean certainly, yeah, we were like, okay, we did $1000 a month. Okay, we did 2000, okay, we did 5000. So the business, you know, was very steadily hockey sticking up.

00:20:37Edit But that first wave of customers certainly kind of came from my network and then it was such a good product. It kind of went beyond. So word of mouth was really reel and then everybody else that was ordering for me was finding out about us through instagram because I was using that same camera I mentioned to post all of these beautiful images. Remember I mentioned the architecture piece of my packages on doorsteps. So san Francisco is like the home of the colorful doorstep. And so there I was with my camera like shooting like taking this box all over the city. I knew the city really just like the back of my hand because I was driving everywhere to go find, you know, some electric pink house really before that was a big thing, you know, and then kind of people would like steal my images and things like that because they, and, and that was still before. Like even crediting was like a big thing. Like I would see my images somewhere and I was like, I like spent so much money like paying for gas to go get there and get that stupid picture. And now of course I don't manage our social media, we have a team. Um, and a social media manager there in new york and they're amazing.

00:21:40Edit But at that time, I mean it was so personal to me, every single piece of the business was personal. One, of course, yeah. Because now I've got my family invested in it. But I really, once I had that first wave of customers that that knew me and trusted me, I had to deliver for them. Yeah, absolutely. Gosh, how exciting! And I know that at some point you did a fundraise and you went to local investors and you found some angel investors and that kind of catapulted the brand to the next level. What was that period of the journey like and how did you go about finding people and asking them for money? Well I really bootstrapped the business like with my grandparents, you know, some of that money and then I was generating revenue to, it wasn't like a packed party was bleeding money like it was working. So I knew, you know I needed the money to buy more inventory, I was getting corporate gifting orders for customers so I needed to invest more. I mean it was really the wheels were kind of turning and there was no wheel before, it wasn't like some dusty wheel like I found like I was building the wheel, pulling the wheel, you know, shining the wheel all the things by myself and I kept talking about the brand as a we when my, you know my w was actually an M.

00:22:51Edit It was totally just me and just to seem larger than life, you know, I think I would like there was a photo shoot um actually the article that got me fired from my job was in the san Francisco chronicle Lorraine Schwartz who um is just wonderful. She writes for women's wear daily and several of those publications, but she wrote the article that kind of changed my life in the Chronicle right before I was fired, like I said, but she was like, oh, we're gonna do a photo shoot and we'll bring a photographer over to your office. And I was like, oh, like my office is just, it's kind of a mess. So why don't you just come to my apartment and we'll set it up there. Little did you know, I didn't have an office at the time. You know, I was like working off of my floor and you can still find that image. I mean I look like a baby. Little did I know what I was in for. There's like the tape on my coffee table and my little laptop is set up and it just, I had no idea what I was getting myself into, but I think that like naive nous pushed me and drove me so far because in the beginning, if I would have thought about fundraising, I don't know if I would have started packed party.

00:23:56Edit I'm very just troubled. We can say that on the numbers side numbers have never been my strong suit. They just give me a lot of anxiety like since I was in third grade like time tests and things like that. Like I see numbers upside down and I had a tutor all through high school. Like even in college I had to go to the community college, you know, outside of campus to like take my math courses because I knew I could be really strong and everything else. But the numbers piece of the business and as a business owner you don't have a choice, you have to know the numbers and screwing up something by 50 cents or a dollar could, you know, cost you your business right? If it's a big enough order. So I knew pretty quickly in going, you know back and forth like yes, I was turning a profit. Yes, my dad was a banker so he was helping me like reviewing the numbers. He had a full time job. It wasn't like my parents were entrepreneurs. So my dad would kind of run through the numbers with me and we practice and practice and practice and you know what my pitch would look like. Finally, because I knew I needed to raise money. But I just the idea of having investors and I like used to like pray about it and I was like, oh my gosh, if somebody could just send me the right like literal angel investor, everything would change.

00:25:05Edit But my first investor actually came to me through instagram several years later, once I moved the business to Austin. So that was in 2000 and 17. So from 2013 to 2017 I didn't really have any, I mean I was just barely running the business and making it work to pay myself and then one other person and then from there, that person came to me and she invested half a million dollars and you know, we agreed on what, what the business was worth. I shared that with her, she was like, yep, yep, I agree with that. And then really, I mean that money was used, I was doing some licensing at the time and so I used the money that I raised from that first angel investor to start manufacturing a lot of those items that I was licensing and doing them on my own. So that was kind of the first stair stepper. And then, because all of a sudden I was handling the manufacturing the fulfillment, the sales piece. I was hiring more people, I made more money. I mean, because in licensing, that was a great way for me to test my brand outside of just those party packages. So we had already started evolving kind of through the years and the other products that made life a party from jewelry to drink where you know, the disco ball drink that everybody knows and loves from packed party things like that.

00:26:16Edit But those are really expensive right on the front end, you're creating a mold for a lot of these items and um, getting it here storing it all those different things that you don't even think about, It's very, very costly. So anyway, we from there, once I raised the funds, I mean I put the money to work immediately. It had nothing to do with really growing the team. It was more or less just about just getting the inventory in. So I could deliver for Dillard's and some of those other larger accounts, we've got a big order at the time from the Dallas cowboys. Yeah, So that's, that's what happened. Uh, that's what happened on the inventory side. And then from there, you know, a year later I knew that I needed to raise a larger round. So I raised $2 million. We were in a good cash position. But I knew that we were at this at this inflection point that we needed to grow. So if I raised $2 million I could invest in more people, I could get more deals done. I could get into some of the retailers that I wanted to, I needed a bigger sales team. I needed better operations, people, people cost money, you know, finance people, things like that.

00:27:20Edit And at that point still I was like, hey, um, do you want to run finance your back party? And also when you're done with your finance stuff like you could do like 9-11, like accounting for packed party and then we need you to get on the phones and be a salesperson. We were like all salespeople just managing the 3000 accounts, mom and pop accounts that we had and then I handled all the majors which really looking back, I mean it wasn't a great way like I was in no way interested in like people development or anything like that. Like of course I cared about you know the well being of people but I was just like, oh my gosh you're a person, you're like you're very friendly, can you be on the phones for me? Great. Here's the phone like there was no ramp period, there was no training and that's not a good way to run a business. But I was also so young, I had no idea what I was doing. So now I mean of course we have our our president and there's different layers inside the business. But back then, I mean I was just like, oh you can help me, you believe in me. Great, come on, I'll pay you. What's that a baby? It just, it that's nuts to like think back on like that period of my life.

00:28:23Edit Like I couldn't a lot of people like, oh like I did so much networking and coffee dates and I wasn't doing any of that. I mean there were a few partnerships that certainly put us on the map. We did a partnership with Rebecca Minkoff, the fashion designer and then a few girls from her team left there and went to draper James when Reese Witherspoon was first starting draper James and so then you know we had that signature photo with Reese Witherspoon like holding my package and it was just this like there were so many life changing things kind of that started happening, This is before of course raising the two million, but I had enough footing to go raise the money so I would recommend anybody never going just starting a business and thinking oh I need to raise money, you need to prove your concept first, you need to, you know, turn a profit and you need to have a brand, you know, it's, it's really easy for so many people to say to investors like yeah give me money, this is what I'm gonna do, but it makes it a lot better to say, hey I need money and this is what I'm doing like in the present like and when I leave here I'm gonna go keep grinding and making it happen because when I raised that second round and even my first round there was never even a conversation about uh doing grocery products, like being in grocery stores like walmart and whole foods and you know being in paper party supplies, which has been really a game changer for my business now, being in that that paper party wear space but they just, they believed in me, I think investors, you know have since like our investors have been like no, like we knew when you came in, you were just going to get it done, it was just going to be this like whatever it took, you had already walked through hell and back.

00:29:57Edit So we knew, okay, this girl is young. She's eager, she's going to go make it happen and put our money to work. And that's really what I did. I didn't, you know, go by myself, the fanciest office or anything like that. I just, I had to turn the money into more money. So, and I think as well like showing that you're committed before you're raising money, obviously showing that you've already been in it for ages, You're already like in that cycle versus like just fresh new starting where no one can see any of that credibility and no one can see your eagerness to succeed. For sure. I mean, I think, you know, for me back then, Gosh, I mean I was just not such a different person because I'm still hustling and making it all work. But I just, everything. I looked at everything on fire and so I do think that that eagerness in a big way certainly came through to the investors that we had and my approach in seeking investors was not immediately off the bat saying, hey, I need money because that's just a weird way to approach anything.

00:31:00Edit Like you don't go get lunch with somebody or coffee and say like, Hey, can you buy it? You know, right? You're like, hey, like I forgot my wallet. If, if you, if you need somebody to help you buy it. But just like money in general is a weird topic. I mean some people be upset that I said that, but I certainly have had trouble asking for help or for money in the past. And so I just approached it and and got the great advice that and approached it this way with ask for advice and get money, asked for money and get advice. And that totally changed my life and fundraising because everybody that ended up investing in me, it was more of a conversation of, you know, I just, you've been so successful. Can you help me navigate what this looks like? And then all of a sudden I'm sharing my story, I'm sharing what I'm doing and then they want to give you money. But if you approach somebody like, hey, I need a million dollars, they're like, whoa, that's really aggressive. So that piece of advice early on when I was fundraising is, was game changing for me.

00:32:02Edit And it's certainly something I still tell people and they're like, what is the fundraising process look like? Because you know, you're going through a deck, your cold pitching. Um, but it's as much about you as it is about them. Like, yeah, they have the money, but you're getting into a marriage with these people, these people are gonna be there on the bad days, the good days. Do you feel comfortable sharing, um, you know, a difficult day with these people do they have and share your same values? Those are all things you do need to think about because if you take money from the wrong person that's worse than being broke and you know your business failing like being married to somebody that's not right for you, like you are going to have a long tumultuous relationship and that beautiful sparkly business you once created, you're gonna have two opposing parties pulling in different ways. So being clear about the involvement from the get go and things like that are, are important when raising Yeah, absolutely. Um you said something a minute ago that I wanted to come back to, about starting as a solo entrepreneur and then growing into this leader essentially and having to hire all of these people and doing it without any experience and potentially even like manager experience, how did you transition from, you know, solo founder to leader, managing people, managing teams, Like how did you up skill to that or figure out what you needed to do?

00:33:22Edit I think that's definitely been a journey for me, transitioning really from a founder to a Ceo and it had to come with a lot of maturity, you know, I took things personally, it was like very early on, it was like, like this is my baby, you know, you don't understand, but like as soon as I fairly quickly, like took my hands off the wheel and allowed it to the other people's babies. I mean, you've read I've read enough for stories about people that don't let anybody make a startup or an idea of their own. It was like, this is gonna hinder my business. And so it definitely, it took a lot of tears in my car, right? People making mistakes and I'm like, I would never have made that mistake. But people make mistakes at the end of the day, I make mistakes at the end of the day. They're what build the business. And for me, that same kind of process of making a list of, okay, what are the things that I'm best at at the business? One of the things that make me happiest when I'm doing them at the business and that was like selling and creative So I still to this day manage all major accounts for us, the Walmarts, the whole foods like from a selling side, Neiman Marcus David's bridal, like all of those people, they're working directly with me to hear the story behind the product, what the inspiration was.

00:34:33Edit Like, I love, you know, sharing that process in and or selling that process in because I believe in it, and because it's coming out of my brain. So, I'm also really the creative director for the brand and coming up with, okay, this season, we're gonna do Sherpa and we're about to launch our new fall collection next monday. So, you know, when we work a year plus in advance and so bringing those ideas to life with our designers who are the only people that I managed at the company now, I'm not a great manager because my brain is so I'm so creative, like quick, fast moving a little bit A D. D. So my brain is all over the place and that's what makes me great for the creative side of the business and a great storyteller for selling. But it makes me a terrible manager in giving people stability and direction. And so the only people that I managed at the business or people that kind of think that same way right, that are creative and there's only a few of them and it's only three people that I manage on that side if you can believe it. And we only have a really small team of technical product designers.

00:35:33Edit But those are the people that ask me for vacation days and things like that because I felt at my worst when I had you know, 20 people all of a sudden like, oh and can I take this day off and then I was getting nothing done to propel the business forward. And and then I'm also like, you know, and like people need vacations, jordans, you know, people people need all those things, I need those things but that process was a long one certainly and took some therapy to get there took some like serious self reflection. Um I have a business coach, you know that I see that kind of sat me down and was like, and, and my investors actually paired me up with that business coach. It's like, okay, what are those things that do make you happiest in the business? Because it was a transition packed party. It was thriving versus surviving. But I was still acting like we were in survival mode and you just, you can't do that to run a successful business. So you know, I wasn't just letting my hands come off the wheel, it was like a slow finger detachment off the wheel in the early days, once we really were growing and from there just hiring the right people allowed me to kind of be in the position I am today, which is doing the things that I love and allowing the business to really flourish on its own and so many different categories with so many different partners.

00:36:51Edit It's so cool to hear you talk about it like that because I think it also takes a lot of maturity to actually be able to put your hand up and be like, yeah, like maybe that's not what I'm best at and I don't need to be the main kind of like, you know, whether it's like ceo like the main manager of the company, I'm actually best in this in this spot and I'm happy to be there if it keeps my company doing like better than before and keeps your happiness better than before. I mean I knew too, I was like, we're going to look larger if my people are so smart like on our team, if our team members are going and speaking on panels and things like that and you know, it's not just me every time. And so that kind of mentality shift in the past few years, it really changed everything for me. You know, I had one person on my team going and speaking at a university and then I was going and speaking that night and then my energy wasn't depleted either and they were really excited and their friends were cheering them on and then more people were talking. So like that shift, like you said it was really everything for me because I, I never wanted the spotlight for a packed party.

00:37:55Edit It was never like I didn't name the company Jordan jones. It's packed party. I mean I'm a part of it. Yeah, I'm on our instagram stories and things like that, but it's, it's not me, um, or my dog or you know, like they're pieces of it, but it is today our team and them being kind of the foundation of of what goes on there. But it was a journey to get there. I wouldn't expect anybody, they're, they're lying if they say like, oh yeah, it was just this like perfect founder, I had this idea and there's a reason why a lot of founders don't sit in the ceo spot. Like, yes, I am the Ceo of the company, but really our president in so many ways is the internal Ceo to provide that stability. Yes, I have the vision and the strategy, but he's amazing and implementing what we need to do to get there. So I let him run with that and he loves it. There's another really cool business, um, that you might know about at the UK whose they've done a similar thing called gym shark and Ben Francis is just this amazing founder and he produces these videos for Youtube and he talks all about the fact that he took his position out of Ceo and they turned him into, I think like chief brand officer or something like that and like he's been able to thrive being in that role versus when he was trying to manage everything and yeah, I think it's so important when you're able to take those realizations and like do the best for the brand versus doing the best for your ego and that kind of thing and your happiness level.

00:39:17Edit Yeah, you can just, you can kill it if you say, oh, like, you know, it's got to be on me, you've got to realize I'm not the best person to be doing this exact role. Like I'm definitely not the best person to be managing any payroll or anything like that. I'd be like, so we paid people twice, oh, you know, and like no one's gonna say anything to me. So yeah, that that was not the right the right role for me. Lo I want to talk about your marketing now and what's working for you guys? How are you acquiring new customers at scale? Obviously you have the huge wholesale portion of the business and then you also have the D two C. E. Commerce side. So yeah, I'm interested to learn what's working for you guys and what you've been up to. Email marketing is huge. I guess I can start on the direct to consumer side. So email, you know marketing is is awesome. We implemented, it's not very pretty on our site but Wheel Leo is something that I use now on our site, our Director of E commerce implemented it and people actually spin a wheel and our email list has gone up like 1000 fold, like I'm not even kidding, it's crazy how many new emails were acquiring in that way by using Wheel Leo, I think it's free.

00:40:29Edit Don't quote me on that, but that's been really a game changer because people love a game. Um so that's just something new that we've been testing. That's really worked and I hope anybody listening to this can can give it a try. Wheelie O W H E E L IO and then um just I mean very consistent email marketing, we've got a couple of emails that go out every single week, we always try to find new and engaging ways to approach our customers whether that's in long format, you know, storytelling emails or quick gifts and you know, images. I used to spend so much time way back in the day making these like higher Aziz beautiful images and like as it turned out, once we hired our e commerce director, it was like, that doesn't always work that only works in this scenario, you know, if you're launching this, but people really want to like hear from you and have a letter and everybody's customers react differently to things. But email marketing has been huge as far as like acquiring new customers or capturing new customers that come to our site um with paired with Twilio and then of course our instagram, you know that's a huge driver.

00:41:33Edit We have over nearly two million people like impression wise that look at our instagram every single week. So on a weekly basis, the idea that you know, it was just me and my mom way back when I was like mom get instagram and follow me because I didn't even have instagram personally like in college or anything like that. I mean that was really my first go at instagram and now I don't have it. I mean it's just packed party because I, I had instagram for a while and people are like reaching out to me with customer service questions. I was like I can't do this. No. And also I was like trying to like, you know, curate cute content for my own personal instagram, well packed party, it was way too much. So that ended all that to say. But on the wholesale side, um instagram, you know, to piggyback off that we have a wholesale instagram channel, that's helpful. Obviously we don't have as many followers there, but that's for like mom and pop accounts to follow. And then on the major account side, I mean really the digital and social marketing that we've done on instagram and partnerships that we've had has given us a lot of exposure to get into more accounts and continue to build the wholesale pipeline of our business.

00:42:37Edit And so, you know, getting into whole foods, it's like, okay, like, you know, walmart is like okay, they can deliver for whole foods and those are two totally separate different collections. You know what you shop at? Whole foods, it looks completely different than what you shop at walmart. Both of them have their own exclusive packed party experiences that were curated and designed specifically for them. But I think, you know, it was certainly like this building block Neiman Marcus and paper source where some of my first wholesale customers and I was packing and shipping them out of a garage and a basement. So, and my parents, you know, and then like neighbors were like helping ship those things, so that's definitely grown, but it was a stair stepper from a brand perspective, and um, you know, not pushing back on certain things there in the beginning that now I do have a leg to stand on to say, like actually this is how these come packaged, we're not going to reopen every single box and repackage them this way for you because we know they're going to sell and things like that. But yeah, the wholesale has really been just, I don't want to say word of mouth, but just through other brand exposure that we've had in different retail channels that have kind of led to the next thing, like, oh yeah, like it looks amazing at whole foods, oh yeah, it looks amazing at walmart and we still sell.

00:43:47Edit So, you know, walmart and Neiman Marcus are two very different channels. You're talking about the most high end retailer in the US, and then, you know, some retailer that's completely for the masses and there's nothing wrong with either. They're both amazing brands and packed party at its core is for everybody. It was never just for the Neiman Marcus customer. It was always, I mean, I was so broke for so long when I was doing back party. The only place I could shop barely was, you know, grabbing my eggs at walmart, but there's customers that go to both and there's people that love our brand and there's people that, you know, want different experiences at those places. And so the idea that we were able to grow those over time and not when I started the business, the idea of saying, okay, I'm gonna do, you know, this many million dollars a year on my online sales. Like my goals, I didn't even really have any goals the first year I was like, Just make sure they ship out on time, right? But everything kind of looking at it that way and stair step bring, it has really made us successful. Um and I set goals for myself, I mean, even this year in 2020 and into 2021, I have different retailer goals that I personally want to hit, that I've shared with our team, but that journey looks different for each brand, but it's it takes time for sure.

00:44:59Edit It's so cool. And I love the walmart collection. I was just looking at it on your story earlier, It's so fun, so fun. And you're in London, we need to be in some more retailers in London. We do sell overseas and overseas, but yeah, that's we need to get into Selfridges or some of the other fun places there. I also was reading about, it was in an article about a special needs positions program that you were wanting to implement and it's something that was dear to your heart. And I just wanted to talk about that and learn more about it. It sounds so amazing and something that it would be cool for more brands to do those kinds of things. No, absolutely, it's something that I wanted to do for a long time. So I thought about kind of going into education when I first got to college and um specifically working with special needs kids, I had volunteered in high school with the special olympics and just growing up, even in elementary school being like a helper, like in my classroom for different kids with disabilities, So is it like intense as I am with practice party, there's also this like very like a big piece of my heart that is super dedicated to working with special needs people and I think with packed party now being in a position where the business has grown and I think we have a lot more structures certainly now that I've, I've been dogging on all the years of chaos, but that's something that's important to me.

00:46:22Edit So our president actually has a son with Down syndrome and one of the very early conversations that we had about him joining the business was creating that program because he had read that same thing. So, um we together in process in the process of putting what that looks like together, we've been so busy with walmart in all transparency, it got moved to the back burner because we needed to generate, you know, revenue to make sure that all the wheels were still dirtying and things like that and we've got a hairline launching with walmart, there's an entire hair collection, which is crazy. That's launching in october. So that came about really quickly. So that kind of derailed from the internal like fun plans that we had on top of Covid of course to, you know, we're not in the office right now, but the goal would be to have a program in our office where we could bring in some sort of just special needs, a student or young adult pay them on an hourly rate and have them just help us whether it was like in our warehouse and they could get their hands on experience that they might be interested in that.

00:47:24Edit There may not be an opportunity elsewhere. I mean there's a lot of like greater positions at places, but I think for us, you know, we do, there's a lot of like counting. There's a lot of like we do champagne cart, you know, like sometimes on the weekends or not on the weekends. I'm like kicking off the weekends on a friday and things like that that somebody would be interested in. So I love it. I just, we need to get back in the office first in order to make it happen. I'm like, I'm not even seeing our team right now. We're all virtual. So the goal would be at least 2021 now they're saying before anybody's back in the office, but we've got it on our radar. We volunteer in a lot of ways. I mean we donated close to 30,000 meals to feeding America during covid, which is really amazing through our sin quarantine these packages and some things like that that we created. But just having that in person experience, it's just special. It makes you feel good. Like it just grounds everybody in the office. I think that was the word I was really looking for. Like, you know, yeah, we could be freaking out about a confetti mix being wrong. But like the world is bigger.

00:48:24Edit Like life is bigger. Life goes on like we're not curing cancer in our office. So that perspective I think is really important to have and keep and keep things fun and light. Yeah, it sounds so special. And I think changing the world starts with your own community and that's how you can change the world, which is a really nice thing and a really cool goal to work towards. I imagine the fulfillment you'll get from that will be, you know, remarkable. Yeah, we've been doing, I mean, gosh, we're paying right now. Like there's a girl on our team that she was like, I'm gonna get my masters and working packed party and the fact that like we're able to contribute to that. Like we surprised her. I called her on the phone and I told her that, you know, we were interested in like paying for that and like helping her with that. It's just like there's been some really cool life changing kind of moments for me personally because I mean, I want to be the boss that I personally would want. You know, I feel like my investors writer, my bosses, I never in my team to like they're holding me accountable, but I want people to have a great experience and I wanted to be a great place to work. So whatever we can do that's within our means to make that happen, we're always going to do it.

00:49:29Edit You're sharing the sparkle. What advice do you have for women who have a big idea or who want to start their own business? I think the best advice is just to do it. That's, it seems kind of silly and simple. But if you're unsure of what that idea is or what the businesses I would, you know, go through that exercise. I mentioned earlier of writing down the things that you're most passionate about that make you tick and make you happiest and seeing how those could kind of translate themselves into some kind of job and they'll manifest, you know from there, I really believe. And like if if you just keep everything inside, if you're not sharing it on a walk with a friend or putting it on paper, then those things they've got to like escape you right. Like if you ever read big magic there's ideas floating around us all the time, but it's just the ones that are meant for you, they'll they'll find you. So that's if you haven't started, you know, or you don't have an idea that you started with, if you do have an idea, I think just doing it, you know, don't get entrepreneurial like A.

00:50:31Edit D. D. It's easy to say like, oh, like I could go this outlet and I need to do this many things like you'll find out really quickly what you're made of and what's driving you forward if all you want is to be in. Forbes your business probably isn't gonna work. You know, I've I've sat down with enough entrepreneurs now, like you find out really quickly when you're talking to somebody what it is that makes them tick for me. It was getting my product into as many hands as possible and bringing as much joy to people as possible. I'll sit down with somebody and it's there's nothing wrong with it. But like pretty quickly in the conversation, they keep mentioning that they want this office and this is how they're going to build out their office and I'm like you're more obsessed with having your own private space and office that you like want to build out and curate, which is awesome than the actual idea. So maybe you just need to make yourself an office and do like things from that office or be an interior designer. So whatever it is that, you know, drives you run with it run forward with it, don't get distracted, just do it, get your, you know, head just down focused and run. Run run because there's gonna be a lot of people that tell you know, but when the doors closed you gotta look for windows and and just keep going, Oh, I love that.

00:51:40Edit Um, okay, we're up to the six quick questions Question # one Is, What's Your, Why? I think why I do what I do is write just exactly what I said. It's to bring joy to the world every day to bring our brand as many people as possible to spark conversation between people. Whether I see you walking in London with your Confetti bag and it just makes me happy. And then I think about it later in the day if my boss, you know, says something mean to me and then I'm like, like I, that girl was so cute with that bag or like, you know, she smiled at me or somebody complimented something that you have. Like, those are the most meaningful wise. Like why I do what I do every day. Those stories. I saw somebody in a walker that like had decorated their walker with all this. The little girl had decorated their walker with like some of the stickers, like confetti stickers and things from our collection. I've seen hard hats like these are people with so many different walks of life. So our customers really? And their stories are my, why I do what I do. That is so amazing.

00:52:42Edit That is just so, so cool. The hard hat with the confetti was cute. I will say. I was like pleasantly surprised. It was like dang, I wouldn't think to customize my hard hat, but this girl was like a construction management badass. She managed the whole team, there was like 50 people on site and she's like, I show up every day, like got my white hard hat with my a on it. So cute. We? Re posted on our instagram. I feel like everyone at your warehouse needs confetti hot had no, they don't need hard hats, that would mean things were like falling and crazy. Don't say that. But yes, maybe there are warehouses actually we, we only have one guy on our team right now and that's not by design, it's just, you know, women are so attracted to our brand and our president, he's, he's the male on our team. Well actually our director of E commerce too, but he's remote. So I haven't seen him now in so long. I forget about him but just being so heavily female oriented, it's really fun because like in our company slack channel we can, you know, share the ideas with people and it doesn't matter if you work in the warehouse or if you're on the operations team, whatever.

00:53:47Edit It's like everybody has their own fun opinion about a product, which is cool, so cool. Question. Number two is what's the number one marketing moment that made your business pop? I think there's a few, I think to the outside it was two other people being on Kathie lee and Hoda when it was originally Kathie lee and Hoda. Kathie lee was out that day. So Jenna, which is now Jenna and Hoda on the Today show filled in that day. But like being on the Today show, I stood out there dressed like a disco ball with my disco ball drink. We pretended that, you know, we were huge fans of the brand and then we sent in our disco drinks and then they were on the show the entire time and ever and I had no pr team, I didn't have the money to do that. Um but I got so many phone calls, like I nearly wrecked my car. I think people thought it was like, oh my gosh, packed party is legit there on the Today show, but just like I pause, watch, pause watching on my tv like stop running. Oh my gosh, okay, I got to watch it again.

00:54:50Edit That was a big one. I think for other people, there wasn't necessarily a huge amount of sales that came from that, but the validity again was huge. Otherwise marketing like, moment that we had, we worked with benches. Love this who at the time, I think they had like, just under a million followers. But like, we had one of our biggest sales days, I'd paid a small amount to work with them, which is really the first time that I had ever paid somebody to post or do any kind of sponsored work for packed party and I paid them a couple of $100 which is like unheard of now. I mean they've grown a lot, we've grown a lot, but at the time I was like, I cannot believe that I just paid that much and now it's like crazy, like I would do anything to like pay a couple $100 and we had this like crazy, like we did like $12,000 in sales like in like a couple hours and I was like, what? Like, and I'm now looking back and like, I'm an idiot. I should have, you know, been like shelling it out every day, but at the time I was still so conservative and eating peanut butter sandwiches, breakfast, lunch dinner. So I was like, I gotta wait a minute to do that again. Like, wait, what, what was I thinking?

00:55:54Edit That's crazy. Anyway, there was, there was a big marketing moments that certainly happened early on, um, just a lot of really fun moments, but that those two specific instances from a visibility standpoint and then an actual like return on investment were huge. Can I just clarify for the Today show, so you didn't pre call or anything, you just rock up in an outfit and you stood outside until someone took the drink the drink like cups inside and gave it to the host. Yes. So the first part of that. So we dressed like disco balls stood down there and then pretended like so Alex on the plaza who at the time I think he was still interning. He's like an instagram personality. But he walked over and he was like, oh my gosh, I love these cups. You guys are so cute, what's going on? Like? And we were like, oh, like we're just such huge fans of this brand packed party, which is a blatant lie, I'm sorry, I promise I'm not a liar. But I was like, I know this is gonna work because if I'm like, oh, like this is my product, you know, put it on there.

00:56:56Edit There was no way that like, he was going to take us seriously or everybody in the world right? That had a product would be standing down there, you know, screaming it from the rooftops. But for us specifically, I was like, yeah, like it's a birthday and we love these cups. And we just wanted to get on the show and he's like, oh my gosh, like Kathie lee and Hoda need these cups and we're like, don't they? Yes, they do. So then I'm like calling my mom right after, I'm like, okay, we like got noticed. I think we're on the Today show, like on the plaza waving with the disco drinks, we need to overnight cups to Kathie lee and Hoda. So and I was like standing there still talking to Alex on the plaza who worked for the Today Show. I was like, oh my gosh, we have to sell the brand that you know, they should send some to Kathie lee and Hoda. That'd be so fun. Little does he know, I'm like on my phone, you know, like, my mom was still shipping them at that point out of the basement and like all of our neighbors were still like helping us. I mean we shipped Neiman Marcus out of that basement. Like, I'm not kidding, this is a basement business. It was garage first, then you know, we moved on up to the basement now of course we have thousands and thousands of square feet of warehouse space and a team there.

00:57:58Edit But at the time I was just like, we just got to get it there. So we sent it to the general address that you can find online attention, Kathie lee and Hoda and then they were on the show, Oh my goodness, That is crazy. So good. And I love like you've also got to have that energy and spirit to be like, I'm not gonna be embarrassed, I'm just gonna go for this and like see where it gets me and if and if all else like nothing happens. And I don't get on the show, it's kind of what I was thinking about it. I was like, look, I'm not like telling people that I'm going to be on the Today show. Like I don't know what's going to happen, but I just never left an opportunity on the table like that. Really for me, I was like, why not me? You know, why wouldn't I be in Walmart three years ago, we went to Bentonville. I brought my dad with me for one of my first meetings and I found out who the buyer was and now, you know, she's my biggest brand advocate inside their stores and has really created so much space for me. I mean those are multimillion dollar programs when I used to fight for like $1000 and I still do fight for $1000. You know whether it's a multimillion dollar program or it's $1000 program.

00:59:00Edit They're both just as important because it's an opportunity for my brand to get out there. But like you don't know unless you go chase after it and you ask the questions and say, okay, why not me? And that was what I did. I mean, I was when we replaced papyrus with our brand and side whole foods. I was like, why not me? Right, why not? My brand in the store? I'm down the street from their headquarters. I'm gonna stalk this buyer until she believes me and brings me into when we showed up at their office, we have like balloons and like all this crazy stuff like I parked like the wrong way for that meeting. I had somebody quit me like 10 minutes before we went and like pitched whole foods. I had to go to the meeting by myself. Like there's all kinds of crazy stories, you know, like if you knew then, but certainly I just, it was relentless and running towards what the ultimate goal was, which was bringing the brand to the masses. Oh, that is so cool. So cool. Question number three is where do you hang out to get smarter to get smarter? I, I mean I do a ton of like reading.

01:00:03Edit I get fit. Um, eyes every morning, which I really love retail brew is great. I, so those are the places I kind of hang out on the Internet in the morning and kind of digest my news from there. But for me mentally to be the best I can be as a ceo, as a leader as a friend. I take a lot of walks around the lake and then I take most of my meetings as walks. So a lot of our investors and a lot of people that will ask me just to get coffee. I'll say, can we, you know, can we turn it into a walk? And that's been really game changing for me. Just being somebody that likes to move and it just gets my blood going and I love doing business that way. So I feel like I'm getting smarter when I, when I'm moving and then I'm just able to like digest more. I also, I mean like everybody, I'm sure on this podcast, I do listen to a ton of podcasts, I listen to how I built this, There's so many great things to digest out there. So I try not to listen to music when I could be listening to a podcast from in the car and things, but that's it. Sad question number four and it might be a bit similar to the last one is how do you win the day and that's around your am and your PM rituals that keep you feeling happy, successful, motivated, productive, a lot of coffee.

01:01:15Edit So I'm very guilty of over, you know just drinking too much caffeine. I have never gone to therapy, you know, until like the last year and that really changed my life, you know like instead of internalizing a lot of the losses that I had celebrating the winds that I was having and um I think there's a lot of stigmas less than there were, but a lot of stigmas around therapy and what that looks like and for me like being a ceo, especially a young one and going through this transition where so many of my friends, the same friends that I had in college or growing up, you know like their biggest stress was like picking up the dry cleaning for the day and then not being ready or and and that doesn't minimize that stress. It is stressful if your dry cleaning is not ready but like I'm freaking out about a shipment being on its way and delivering, you know on this P. O. Or not and like losing a massive amount of money. And so it just, I found it really hard to relate in therapy kind of showed me how to manage those feelings at times of isolation and um you know, hurt right instead of like internalizing things like that.

01:02:19Edit So that's really helpful for me. And then I light a candle like at the end of the day, like I just have this like fabulous candle. It's a mason louis number four and I've always had the scandal. Our office smells like it, my house smells like it, but it just, he stresses me, it's kind of like my way of like okay, like candles lit, I'm gonna turn on like my favorite song, I need a shower, take my dog out and just kind of come down off the day. I love that Question. Number five is if you only had $1,000 left in your business bank account, where would you spend it? That's a great question. Gosh, I think on, there's a few places, but I think the number one is obviously on directed consumer, you know, any kind of like sc oh that we could use or add, there's our return on ad spend is really amazing. and so um yeah I'd spend it there and then I'd probably just like payout my people and just they're like I'm sorry this thing failed. Just I mean I don't know like right, is that a terrible answer and maybe the only Ceo that's come on here and say that but like sorry guys, like let's just go have a really fun dinner and celebrate that.

01:03:32Edit This thing was it was a good roller coaster. But yeah probably one of those two things, the real answer is S. C. O. That people want to know. S Ceo is like huge but honestly I'd probably just take everybody to chick fil a and blow it out. Ha Oh my god, I love that. Let's let's turn it up guys, we're gonna go get margaritas somewhere else and then about a million chicken nuggets because I'm gonna need to get kind of drunk and food food coma for a minute. I love that question. # six is how do you deal with failure? And it can be around like personal experience or just general mindset and approach um I just try to like talk to myself a lot which sounds kind of crazy but like I've been trying really over like the last couple of years like more so when I start feeling sad about something that's like not come to I replace the feelings with gratitude so instead of saying like I didn't get this, I'm like okay I didn't get this, but I'm really thankful for this and it sounds kind of elementary to do in your own mind, but like, I go so far down the list because I'm type a, I'm like, find myself even like, I'm grateful for my bar stool that I get to sit on because I'm like, I can't go back there, I can't go back there, you know, I gotta run the opposite direction because it is, it's, there's a lot of things that will happen when you start a business that can be really disheartening or a lot of naysayers or just if somebody fails you and quits, you're really like, lets you down and you don't see it coming and it can make your heart really, really hardened and certainly as a creative, I think it's so important to keep your heart soft and open, because that's when the best ideas come to you and the best people are attracted to you too.

01:05:18Edit So I think just really like reciting gratitude and things that you're grateful for and and you're waking up each day and not saying like, okay, like all the things I have to do, here's the things I'm gonna do. So it's this mental shift and then you start talking to yourself that way and everything changes. I need to do more of that. Yeah, I mean, I have it's a thing every day because it's so easy to stand, I always give this this vision to our team because we've had, you know, of course I've had people now at this point in my business that have come and they've gone, but the people that have stayed and been the most successful and are going to make a lot of money at packed party are people that say I'm not underneath the waves, they stand on top of the wave and they're like, these are the things that I need to accomplish, not, these are the things that are going to accomplish me because when you work at any startup and it definitely is a founder to its really overwhelming to say, okay, I need to give 10% of my time here, 10% here here here here. And instead of saying, okay, no, these are the priorities, this is what I'm going to get done.

01:06:20Edit I mean like I run through so many lists every single day and like, I don't even use at this point, I go through this like this is a mead notebook, it's not even a packed party notebook because it's, you know, I just, I've got to write it all down and get it out of my head and then keep myself on task. I think it's super important and then you can manage your wins for sure, that's true. Oh gosh, I have absolutely loved this podcast, you just radiate pure sparkle and pure joy and I feel like now having spoken to your business just even makes more sense to me because I can just see it like shining out from you. So thank you so much for taking the time. I really, really appreciate it and I absolutely love what you're doing. Thank you so much for having me. This is such a joy and I'm sad you're not going to be in London When I come and visit because it's definitely on packed parties list. We've got to find a way to uh to bring the brand of London in a big way. So, 2022 maybe look out, it needs to be here, look out London, love to love it.

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