The advice Mark Cuban gave Unreal Deli’s Jenny Goldfarb that saved her business.
Updated: Nov 24, 2022
It’s Doone here, your host and hype girl. It is the most beautiful today here in Sydney, I’ve got little Sweetie sitting on my lap and we’ve got a cracker episode today with Jenny Goldfarb, the founder of Mrs Goldfarb’s Unreal Deli.
Jenny grew up watching her family run deli’s in NYC but after watching a video of how animals actually get slaughtered she changed her life and set out on a mission to create her favourite food in plant version.
Jenny is the kind of person you could chat to for hours - she’s got a story made of gold and in this episode you’ll hear her tell me all about her grassroots efforts to get the word out there by doing door to door sales, trawling Facebook groups to find people like her to connect with, the key piece advice that saved her business and a mistake that cost for her $100k.
Before we jump into this episode we’re getting close to launching Majic and I would of course LOVE to see you there! You can sign up to our priority waitlist where you’ll receive our launch offer when we go live next month at femalestartupclub.com
Please note, this transcript has been copy pasted without the lovely touch of a human editor. Please expect some typos!
So, uh, I grew up a great granddaughter of new york city deli owners and I grew up eating a lot of good deli meat but thought I was gonna pursue mainstream. I don't know, I was in a tech company, I was in sales for a marketing company, Rando stuff on more of the sales. The end of things I thought would be my career. And then I saw some videos one day as a young mom, what was happening to these animals on these farms and it's worse than your worst nightmares. Today's actually Halloween while we're recording this. So let me just say it's like the freakiest Halloween setup. You could even imagine you don't want to see these videos. But the point is that you can't really unsee them. And so after I saw them, I told my very meat and potatoes husband, we need to find another way to consume food. And that was a big uphill battle. But after a while I was cooking this way and eating this way and really loving it. I saw so many benefits outside feeling good ethically. I we lost a little weight. Our skin all got great, my kids got less sick. So uh big fan of the diet on a whole, asides from the ethics and uh, and anyway, of course the ecological reasons as well. But anyway at some point I realized that while there were a lot of great plant based things coming on the market and a lot of great ways to make veggies yummy by themselves. There was no classic deli meat, like what I grew up with eating in like old school Delhi's and having that kind of like in my bloodline and I did not think this is gonna be a big entrepreneurial exercise. I thought this would be a little recipe I made from my house. So I was pregnant with my third child and I started tinkering around and I made this corn beef out of beets, chickpeas, tomatoes, high protein wheat complex spice blends and from the first one it was quite good. Of course. I dialed it in further and it was like, whoa, so real, you couldn't believe it. And friends and family were like, this is not just a recipe, you need to sell this and mass. And so I rented a tiny commercial kitchen in 2019 with a growing belly and two kids in preschool, I would pick up the ingredients at my local store and then go to this little kitchen where I would cook it all day and wash the dishes when I wasn't cooking it and then I would try and sell it around Los Angeles. I said to myself, if I can get this thing sold in. Some of the local deli is that we have here. Like there are these like iconic new york style deli is all over the place. So they have them in Australia, they're all over the US. Anyway, we have a few in there. Anyway. Uh I said to myself, if I can sell it into these like iconic old school new york Delhi's and we can see big reorders and people get excited about it. Even in just a few stores then I could maybe sell this thing anywhere because no one knows good corn beef and deli meat better than those guys. So in 2019 we get into a lot of the major Delhi's around L. A. And articles are coming out on it because it was really cool. You can like sit in like an old school deli and get, you know, like a completely cruelty free but super delicious, authentic expo experience there. So the deli owners realized they had younger customers that we're asking for this and would tell the whole family we're not going out to the deli tonight because I want to have a salad somewhere and these guys don't have, you know, so they were losing customers. They realized the opportunity. Anyway, long story short, the Delhi's turned into selling to our local whole foods turned into shark tank. I applied for shark tank at the end of 2019 and made a deal with Mark Cuban for more than double the cash. I was asking for this crazy segments and then uh, I thought I was doing great things before and then you have Mark Cuban and a bunch of tv on your side. So that really blew things up. But what it meant actually was that we got big into restaurants were selling into all these different like big chains and they were growing in the project scope. And then Covid hit when Covid hit first off my dad who I worked very closely with, he was a longtime entrepreneur and Is actually involved in this business as well. He got so sick that he was put on a ventilator for 28 days. Like no one thought he was gonna make it. And then at the same time all of the restaurants, thank you. He barely survived like a true miracle he survived. But and so did the business because all of our restaurant partners were like, see, we don't know what's happening. We're closing most a lot of days. We were like, what? This was our big break. We're having all these launches coming and uh, so we had to kind of start over from ground zero with a retail Line. So we have this big pivot that happens and we created our retail packaging for our corn beef and our roasted Turkey because we had to create more items because we can't just have one on a shelf that'll get lost. We made a whole line which is basically using real vegetables and protein rich grains to make the finest deli meats. And so it's very exciting ride today. We're in like 3500 locations and many more to come and will be in Australia before long doing feeding you and yours. You will, I'm excited to see you here. Oh my gosh, there is a lot to unpack here. You've just given me like three years worth of story in like six minutes, holy moly what a journey! It's crazy. I want to kind of like go back to that early time and kind of sit around there and talk more around your marketing in the beginning and you know how you were getting the word out and how you were actually getting into those Delhi's like what was those like interactions? Like what were those meetings? Like how were you actually starting to get the ball rolling? So I was cold calling good old fashioned cold calls. I would type in deli owner of you know, whatever. The one I wanted to get into that was close close enough driving distance that I could get to for, to bring a school and I was careful. I had to learn not to call during lunch time. I learned that the hard way getting screened out a couple of times or once very loudly and then I said alright calling those off hours and uh and I would at first I had this picture, I was like I'm making this new vegan product and you know you need this and there's clientele that you know you're missing out on, and then at one point I gave the whole spiel and I was like, so I'd love to drop by with a sample, and the lady was like yeah, we taste samples and I realized I was like, all I really have to say is, well you taste the sample, what time are you there? And then I got off the phone much quicker, so you know, slowly, slowly learn the right wrap, got them to say okay, you know, you can come in, I'm not gonna say no. And what's nice in the food business is that everybody has a curious palate, even the most successful out there that don't need you at all, they still want to taste like what's the new greatest thing going on? So I wiggle my way in there and some off hours and bring like a little sandwich wedge that was like all dressed up, you can still taste, you know, the meat itself, but also like a fully, you know established situation there and nine times out of 10, they were like, it's delicious, you know what can you, you know, can you deliver £20 you know, and then at, for a while my husband was delivering, even though he's a full time employee elsewhere. Um, and uh, little by little, that's how it all kind of kicked off the ground, wow gosh. And with that approach, like are we talking like you got hundreds of retailers just by like pounding the pavement and going in with your sandwiches or like a couple and then it started to spiral or yeah, so like we had the first six, you really only need that one. Once you get that one you say to the next guy, they have it, they're doing great with it. They're bringing in all sorts of new. So once you've done that, once you saw the first one, you can just keep replicating the model. It just grows. So yeah, I was at the same time, like even way back in the earliest days I was reaching out to sprouts and whole foods and I was, I said, oh yeah, then we got into whole foods. I said it real fast in the pitch. No, no, no, no. I sent 400 emails, the whole foods and got some samples and once and one time they were like, yeah, we think we want to work with it. And then they go through me for like five months. But then at some point they said, all right, we're gonna bring this into a pre made sandwich. And then the conversations became more established. I wasn't talking to one little deli owner I was talking about. But then those new guys needed certain food safety requirements and insurance coverage and I had to learn of course all all of this on the job, you know, But I also aligned with some industry folk that wound up joining the team that I worked closely with today and so I had guidance from some industry people also. Um but yeah, just with the excitement and willingness to learn and wanting to offer something beautiful, we got into what really is today, thousands of doors, you know, we wound up ultimately recruiting a brokerage firm handles a lot of the sales so you know, a lot of elements to it. I didn't go selling, you know 500 doors, but yeah, the first whatever dozen or so times and then now with big deals I'm dealing with all of those, like we're gonna be getting walmart next year. And so obviously like that thank you. So yeah this little thing that I made in my home kitchen that was like, it was like Delhi, but it was vegan and it was like this lady's thing with vegetables like made it, it was like this niche little thing and now it's going to be in like mainstream you U. S. A walmart, so don't think that anything that you're trying to build is like who's gonna care about this thing of a thing of the things people do and if you make it good enough and with enough, love you can really get it out there. I just love listening to you speak before I go on my next question. I just love listening to you tell your story because you are so passionate and it is just like bubbling out of you and I was watching the videos that you were doing on, you know the streets of new york city where you're mrs Goldfarb, you're handing out sandwiches to people, you're the deli owner essentially and I feel that in you, I feel that presence, you're amazing. I really just want to make like the whole world a delicious sandwich and I know that people also, they just wanted some like a delicious sandwich. No one ever wanted to like hurt an animal, hurt the earth, hurt themselves and we just wanted a good sandwich. So that's what I'm trying to push into the world. I'm with you. I I also don't eat meat and it's a struggle. Sometimes, sometimes you just want those kind of feel good, comfy comfort food things that you know, you've got to really try and find the solution. So I'm excited for you to come to Australia, thank you so much for saying that dealing with the roller coaster that is being a human with emotions isn't easy, but when we open up about what's on our minds, we learn that we're not alone. That's why co founders, Daniella Pearson Mandy t fee and Selena Gomez created Wonder Mind the world's first mental fitness ecosystem with the mission to democratize and destigmatize mental health with honest conversations and expert advice. Wonder Mind is your roadmap for overcoming stigma, shifting your mindset and helping you feel supported and we all know that startup life is an emotional journey. That's why I'm thrilled to share with you Wonder mine's first podcast, the business of feelings which surrounds conversations with those who have risen the ranks across a range of industries to talk about. Something that you don't often hear about their feelings every Tuesday Wonder mine co founder and co Ceo Daniella Pearson sits down with industry leaders to learn about the intersection between their careers and their emotions and what their journey to the top really felt like be sure to subscribe to the business of feelings on apple podcasts for new episodes every Tuesday and visit Wonder mine dot com for easy to understand articles that take the jargon and judgment out of mental health. Something we love to talk about on the show is the money piece and that kind of like early initial investment that you needed to put in to get the business off the ground. So I'm wondering for you, what was your thought process to the finances and the funding piece and how were you kind of thinking about the trajectory of whether we're going to Bootstrap or were you going straight out, go and raise or what was that kind of peace like for you? So I started off with the mentality that I really wanted to like run all the departments because you know there was one invoice to send and there was one facebook post to make and there was you know one batch to make so at the beginning there was like I I could do all of the roles and to take that ball down the field as long as I really could and then at some point my dad realized this was quite exciting and kind of got in also and took some responsibilities off of me and then right at the time that shark tank was gonna air, I brought on my 1st $20 an hour like helper who became like my major right hands in the business today to help me like really with everything and um but not like an assistant, like someone who's like managing tons of the operations and like has really like developed into quite the role but uh but yeah, I really did try to like Bootstrap like the first money I raised was shark tank um I probably put in somewhere between like 30 to $35,000 of my own family money to To get it fully to like getting the Mark Cuban money but I also had some cash flow to offset that. So uh I think by the time I was on shark tank I had like $10,000 in revenues which was really such a joke but it wasn't nothing. I mean it went toward what the spend was there. And uh yeah, I'm definitely big into like keep doing it as long as you can take that ball down the field until it's unsustainable and you really have to grow with with money in the right way. So yeah. And what happened with the shark tank experience, obviously you went on the show, you went in with an like an idea about how much you wanted to raise and how much you wanted to sell of your company. Tell us about the experience, what ended up happening with Mark Cuban. So I apply to get onto the show in at the end of 2019 and at the time we had made this little promo video because my husband is actually a TV editor. So the first step is you marry a TV editor. Then then what happened was he put together a really cute video where I go, I'm mrs Goldfarb and my roots to authentic deli, go back over 100 years and then I'm out on the street passing samples around similar to what you saw, right those videos and thanks. And so that video was on my very rudimentary first homepage on real deli dot com. And that video very much I think helps me get on the show and I'm sharing this with your listeners. So they know that this is like a very sweet key to have to number one open sales doors give people like a fun way. It's obviously great for social media, but it's specifically really helps with something like a shark tank because when the casting director goes to the page and they see that video on your site, they're like, oh yeah, that's my segment. I don't have to do any work. I get to go home early today. So that's my advice for trying to get onto a shark tank. But then once you're already on the show yet, you gotta walk in with some kind of valuation and that's typically a lot lower than you'd see at a regular fight in a regular financial institution Because you get this incredible TV exposure and it's totally worth it a million times over to get this exposure. But yeah, I went in looking to make raise $100,000 giving up 10% of the business in my mind. I was willing to give up as much as 30% because you have to like have some wiggle room and I wound up getting this insane offer from Mark Cuban for 250,000 for 20%. Uh he was like, take it or leave it. I was like, I'm not an idiot. We're taking that deal. And I'm in. Yeah. And then he actually made another investment last year as we grew into publix, which is like a 1300 store chain that we got into. So yeah. Gosh, yeah, a wild ride for sure. I read that after shark tank, not long after shark tank was when kind of you know, Covid was really kind of ramping up and things were happening and and a deal that you were about to do with Quiznos, I think it's called in America, you know, was about to change the pathway. And Mark gave you some specific advice and helped you kind of take a new direction. Can you talk through the advice and why? Yeah, so we um we were doing a test in 16 Denver Quiznos stores and they wanted to, you know, any big chain, they're like let's throw it into a few and see how it does. So you have to perform that well on that test. And we did like with flying colors. So by jan january 20 21st they said would you give us an exclusive on the corn beef. And Mark Cuban was like told me I was like what do we do? And he said were too far along, we're not giving that exclusive. I said no. And then a week after that they wrote me back and said the test is going so well that we want to bring it to all at the time. They had 450 stores and that was gonna be huge for us because uh the food service business and restaurants, it's like it's way more than what you get in a grocery store but either you know, you want to play both of course. But we were super psyched to say the least. And then when Covid hit that got very much on ice, they were like, hey hope you haven't bought any of the ingredients yet. We were like, what? You know, the whole world was shutting for, what would we say? And my father was so sick. It was all such a blur. But um but anyway, at that time, Mark said to me, you tell everyone that were even remotely talking with that we're ready for retail right now, meaning like that's over, This is the new chapter, we're ready, we're ready, we're ready to sell, you send us the paperwork, you know, and to get into retail is like, it's some time you do gotta do lab testing in boxes and specs on specs on things you don't even think that are like real anyway, so that took a few months. But I did start the conversation with a few grocery folks that have reached out after shark tank, like, hey, we're ready to rock, get it going. And uh so by january of 2021 because it takes even once you fill in the paperwork, it takes a few months to get set up. You can imagine the like major grocery chains by january of 2021 we were in 100 and 50 ralph stores and we ended the year with like two, 2000 stores now we're like 3000 something, we're about to launch into sprouts in the us and, and we're getting into Latin America and we're definitely working on a lot of international in the next year or so as well. Oh my gosh, thank God you didn't say yes to the exclusive. No kidding. Thank you. Yes, That's a great piece of advice. Know your power nowhere you can go As you grow now. You know, I read that you just announced your series a raise, your valued at 50 million. You've, you've got a lot going on for you. What are the kinds of marketing initiatives that are shifting the needle for you to continue to kind of explode that growth, like you're already in so many stores, but like what happens from here? Where do you go from here? Well, at this point in time we're definitely looking into uh, different kinds of programs that you can use, Like we've been on your phone to be able to like get a rebate on a free path or scan a QR code and get taken to like a fun place with like a great interactive video or have Tiktok both advertising and good content rolling out a short form video is where everything is at, at this moment in time, as far as both, you know, on instagram even facebook and uh, and certainly that, that's, that's Tiktok for you. So, uh, definitely working in that realm, working with other influencers, you know, we're also learning on the job, you know, in this as well. But that's kind of where we're at, you know, pr is like definitely very much a focus. We've gotten a lot of earned media and that's like, it's just a great place to be. We found that like facebook and instagram ads are just not pulling like what they used to. So that's not really the space as much today. But yeah, you know, we're also going to a lot of trade shows. We haven't so much in the past, but now we're starting to, I have that baby that I was pregnant with is now three. So for me, two nights is like the longest amount of nights that I can be like completely in another state. But I have a team that will go for like four of the knights and like I show up for like a day and a half. And uh, and that's what that looks like on like the marketing front. So, um, and I'm also like very like gorilla and scrappy and like literally today I was cold calling Panera Arby's like, I'm just also like in it, in it to win it and like whatever. So, so I'm anyway that those are some of our marketing. I love that. I love that. And I love that you're kind of, you know, still still scrappy, still on the ground, still in the weeds kind of like growing the business and and having fun with it too because that's so important to, to keep the fun. I am. I try to remind myself because the stress levels like when you raise the stakes, literally the stakes get like raised. I mean it's like you deal with like a stress, it's like a multimillion thing that you know, you could mess up or what, you know, right? So I definitely remind myself gotta be having fun and we've got to like really be living our dreams even though it's, you know, it is, it is, you know, stressful too. So uh so keeping that in fact is very important. So we've talked about marketing, we've talked about money. The other thing I love to talk about is mistakes and the challenges because we can often get caught up in all the highlights and you know how great it's looking and how successful the business is going. But of course on the flip side, every journey like we know is crazy and there are so many lows, what are the kind of challenges that you've been facing recently in growing this business that we, you know, we don't see on social media, My dad uses this phrase, the agony and the ecstasy. So yeah, there's also a lot of hard work. So I'll tell you one of the most, my most recent mistakes that I get to wear a badge on my, of honor here, my little situation here is that we got into a Costco region that I thought was just like you got into a Costco and so you're just in it not knowing that Costco works on a rotation basis with a hugely almost all of their items except for like ty and like super things. You then like a classic item, anything that's like at all niche or interesting or different is like a rotational item. So we bought like 100 and $50,000 worth of packaging because like you need like that many months in advance to keep that kind of volume on going. So uh turns out we get into the store and I'm like, yeah, we're here. And then uh I wind up seeing that like they had this thing called a booking, which was like 100 and 80,000 units. Just like a lot of money. They're like $12 a unit, right? I'm like amazing. Like that's the, I thought that was the first order. They were like, oh no, that's what we're going to buy in total. So I was like, okay, that was a loss, you know, but you only learn that from going through it I think. And uh and obviously now like right now I'm being pitched a product that's like a ready made wrap made with our steak slices and some plant based cheese and some veggies that's like really delicious. But I'm being pitched it and I would have to buy the whole item meaning like I have to take on. I have to pay for the rapids, the labor to put it together right to then sell it from my catalog. So I'm saying to myself, what if I take that on? And then there's like spoils that goes out of date. But like I'm like, now way wise too. Like, cause I had stupid Costco experience. I'm not even asking these questions. So you know, live and learn, live and learn. Another thing I just showed you so proudly, we've got these beautiful boxes, but the only reason we have these beautiful boxes is because for two years we had these pouches and the pouches. We thought we're gonna hang in the deli counter. Like in the deli section. Like this turns out they wound up mostly getting put into produce sections where tofu and other meat alternatives are, which is actually where they sell the best. It turns out we didn't know that. But in those sections there's only shelves, there's not pegs. So like in a huge percentage of our stories, even today we look like this on the shelf. So good luck finding you really have to know where they're. So now just came in. It's not even on shelves yet. I'm showing it like, of course we've had this all along. No, lots of mistakes to get this. So those are some recent mystics from recent blunders. Just a couple for the week, just a couple for the week. I feel like the learnings, the learnings though that come from these experiences are like so valuable in the long term, totally hard in the moment. Good in the long term. Yes. Yes. When you think about the lessons that you've learned in the course of building this business, is there anything you wish you knew or you wish someone told you before you were starting out that you can share with our listeners? I think it's really that so much of the foundation of what made this business successful is that I was starting off in a place of empathy and for me it was like the animals, but it doesn't have to be as dramatic as that if we're looking at something in the world that feels like it's not really there all the way, it's not really dialed in that thing isn't like there yet servicing us and you're like, that hurts a little bit. That's where there's some magic sitting there. So if someone had said to me, hey, you have all that pain for those animals. There's a business in that because there's like you're leveraging all of that like good vibration for, for how much good you want to put into the world and, and like attracts like, so, so that's how I would answer that one wherever you're feeling that there's some, there's some work to be done and there's some money that can be made in that.
So question number one is, what's your why? Why do you wake up every single day and get out there and build this business, these sweetheart animals that are sweeter than the puppy that like you love the cuddles in your bed. I'm telling you they really actually are sweeter. They just have to be super fast answer even other fast questions because you know the canines, they dogs, they have these canine teeth so that they're actually there to like rip up animals and stuff like that were like let those guys into our bed. Meanwhile the cows which have, are saying teeth, they just chew cut. They sit innocently, they don't want to hurt anybody. They're so sweet and they will chase the ball and take belly tickles. Anyway, we have a mountain of evidence showing us that they're complete sweethearts and that's my wife and the baby lambs? Baby lambs. It just gets me, it really gets me. I'm like the lambs is so cute, how could we eat that? It's ridiculous, cute. I saw a video recently of a little girl in like some Southeast asian country, two years old with a chicken on its lap that she's like giving a bath to and the chicken is like totally cool with it. Their sweethearts too. So I'm calling them out to, oh my gosh, what is the favorite? What is your favorite marketing moment so far? My favorite marketing moment is that I'm in these different facebook groups for vegans in different cities and I love hearing what they have to say and saying things myself and having like a dialogue with like vegans across the country. So uh it's like a way that like I kind of found a way to like sneak into like my immediate lowest hanging fruit tribe uh and and like share stuff with them like for free and get their opinions on things and hear what they're talking about. I find it incredibly valuable and free. So if there's something you're interested in for like a business, you want to create that. There's probably some group of folks that like that thing that are somehow near that thing, like for instance, it's not only vegans that are interested in my product. Also people that are eco champions or eco conscious or are interested in eating this way. So there are groups for that. There are ways to like meet your people and and get opinions from them and use it to really leverage the business. Oh, I love that one Question. Number three is what are your go to business resources when you're turning to a book or a podcast or a newsletter? So my very best friend, Cathy Heller, has the most incredible podcast that's literally in like the top 20 in the world as far as how it's ranked on Itunes, her podcast is called Don't Keep Your day job and it's brilliant and doing, you should be checking her out to, she's so she gets it uh in the deepest way and knows that it's all an energy play and uh and has made tremendous success of her career and it's just all about, you know, empowering that female entrepreneur and really just that female, she's very connected with uh different programs for women and just truly sage advice. I was having dinner with her just last night, were super close friends and also my dad who's kind of like a little bit of my hero and business. Uh I go to him as well. I love that. So beautiful. Nice question number four is how do you win the day? What are your AM and PM rituals or habits that keep you feeling happy and successful and motivated. Wake up, I drink this um chocolate almond milk that I make myself using. Uh it's like hand squeezed almond milk and then dates and cocoa powder and maca powder. Oh my God come and make me one of those, you know, this could be a business if it didn't have a super short shelf life. So I'm like very free with the recipes. It's really incredible. Anyway, I mix that with a shot of espresso. I take a few vitamins and then up at my desk I say a couple of old hebrew blessings that connects me to the fact that uh that there is oneness in this world and that that consciousness can change the world and uh just kind of meditate on that for a couple of quick minute, then I get into like emails meetings, you know, looking at my to do list. That's all like until maybe 1 32 o'clock. Yes, I take this beautiful walk outside even if it's hot, I bring water and even if it's freezing, I do layers. Um so I feel like there's no excuse for not getting outside because it is like 100 and five years. Sometimes I claimed how beautiful it was, sometimes it's quite rough, so uh Getting outside and then my second half of the day after I'm outside and I've kind of had like times unwind, no phones or anything on that walk, I'm like looking at nature, I'm thinking about stuff, I'm not like in a meditative trance for 25 minutes, I'm like processing. But uh but I come back from that walk and I try and set up calls with people like you do. And and have more fun with my like second or third last, final third of the day there where I'm maybe I'm taking marketing meetings, it's like not as serious, maybe I mean not the marketing serious but uh but just the stuff that I'm personally having more fun at little lighter. Yeah, exactly. And then also, you know when I'm in that like light space, I'm like, oh yeah, email that person. Like I'm like inviting my best thoughts to arrive. So beautiful things are coming in that portion of the day to oh my God, I love what you just said that inviting my best thoughts to arrive. I'm writing that down. That sounds great. I'm gonna invite my best thoughts to arrive. Yes, that's what I'm talking about. And then at 5:00 I have help with my three year old that goes home and so I take on my three little girls and we have a little fun and we also try and keep things light and sweet and vegan. My husband gets off work. He's been home based since Covid's, he's able to do is editing here. And uh, anyway, we try to have a nice evening together. So that's, that's what life looks like. Did I answer? That was way too long of an answer you ask am and PM. Anyway, it's good. I love it all. It's, it's good. It's never too long. I think a long answer is good Question. Number five is what's been your worst money mistake? And how much did it cost you? So that Costco thing probably was like 100 grand. I have this Costco packaging, it sitting there. I don't know what to do with it. I was emailing other Costco divisions a couple days ago. Hey, you guys want to take on my packaging? No, I was like, we got the hottest Ellie try it and they were like, no, it's not totally fitting right now. So, uh, so that was an expensive mistake and I'm learning. I've learned my lesson as I mentioned with the wraps. Damn yeah, I hate that one for you. That's a big one. Thank you. And last question question # six, What is just a crazy story you can share from this wild ride of building a business, good or bad. Okay. Got one. So I talk about these Delhi's, I started the business with the deli, but I don't usually mention is that in March of 2019 it was gonna be ST patrick's day because I had this corn beef, my mother in law was like, go and sell some irish pub. I find some local irish pub called pick wicks and I call and get the lady, some lady answers the phone and it's not lunchtime and uh, and I say, hi there, you know, I give my film, like I have, you know, this really amazing vegan corned beef. I just want to drop off a sample like who's the person you know, that I could be to sample this with? And uh, and the lady literally laughs at me on the call because you know, there's something with like vegans, like really rubbed people the wrong way because somehow people feel culpable or like, you know, they're being judged. I don't know, but it gets like more hate than like any other diet. It's actually like been proven okay and whatever it is what it is, but the lady laughs at me fine, but I still find out that her boss jerry is the one. I had to share the samples, go down there and meet jerry and I sell him on like one piece, which was, I think it was like $20. He literally wrote me a check for like $20. Okay. And uh, and I come out and I had a couple of little samples so jerry ate one of them. But then like I came out and political more samples and I go places mostly empty. It was like kind of staff and I go, who was laughing at me on the phone? And they were like, who answered the phone when I got to get the woman? And uh, and I don't want you to taste this jerry. Just bought some, you tell me what you think. So she takes a bite in front of me and she's like, all right, It's pretty good. I like that respect, you know, so I understand. I was walking around with that kind of foot spell, which is I guess always sold this thing in the first place. But yeah, don't mess with me. Don't laugh at me. I'm coming after you basically. I love that. That is amazing. You're amazing jenny. This was so much fun. You are just such a blast. Thank you for sharing your journey. I'm, I'm your hype girl. Thank you. Doon your, your rock soul and I see it. Thank you. Hey, it's dune here. Thanks for listening to this amazing episode of the female startup club podcast. If you're a fan of the show and want even more of the good stuff, I'd recommend checking out female startup club dot com where you can subscribe to our free newsletter. We send it out weekly covering female founder, business news, insights and learnings in D. C. And interesting business resources. And if you're a founder building an e commerce brand, you can join our private network of entrepreneurs called hype Club at Female startup club dot com forward slash hype club.