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How a personal care brand launched by giving thousands of products away for free,with Ariel Wengroff

Joining me on this episode is Ariel Wengroff.

This woman is an absolute powerhouse with so many interesting projects under her belt. Having spent many years working at Vice and building out their female focused media vertical, she’s since produced Gloria Steinam’s film Woman, she’s co-founded Arfa Inc. which is a consumer goods company that produces personal care brands Hiki and State Of, she’s recently launched a production company and she’s an advisor for LionTree. A new age digital meet investment banking company.

In this episode we’re chatting through the development of Arfa and what it looks like to build out a portfolio of brands through a collective of real folks, a very unique launch for Hiki and her key advice for women who have a big idea.

Please note, this transcript has been copy pasted without the lovely touch of a human editor. Please expect some typos!

Ariel Hi, welcome to the female startup club podcast. Hi, I'm so happy to be here. Thank you for having me. Me too. I'm so excited. You have such an impressive track record. You were an executive producer on the Gloria Steinem film woman. You've had a new film premiere recently, You were previously the co founder of Arthur inc, which is a consumer goods company that develops personal care brands like Hiki and state of metaphors. And now you're an advisor at Investment Bank.

00:04:33Edit Lion Tree Holy molly have been steady thing is that it? I mean it's been a busy couple of years. I'm also just found my own production company called cultures last stand. So I'm excited for some upcoming projects there as well. That is just so cool, wow, such a go getter. Holy moly. Okay, so today we're going to hone in on your time at Arthur, inc building Hickey and state of menopause and the lessons you've learned along the way. Where does that story start in your life? Well, it's funny because I actually think the story starts with being just an incredibly curious person. Um my entire career and background is founded in this notion of what is the best medium to connect with people and allow other people to open their minds and really be more excited to learn about people that may not be like them. I started out in politics in Vermont which is a small state, but it's a laboratory for change and it allows you to have a lot of accountability because if you have a conversation with someone, you're probably going to run into them at the grocery store and they're going to ask you about it.

00:05:41Edit And so it was a great way to start my career and then understanding that your words really matter. And at that point I realized politics has so much red tape, I think that there are other ways to connect with people and that's really where media became such an opportunity for me because when I ended up moving to New York and started working at vice back in 2014, it was such a small company that if you wanted to raise your hand and really run full steam ahead, you could. And I realized at that time that there was an incredible opportunity to also tell many more stories that focused on the female characters on the ground. And that was when we started working with Gloria Steinem and developed our show Women. And so that led me to realize, okay, there are all these brands that are trying to work with media companies that want, they want that cachet of cool right, they want that audience to feel like it resonates with the brand, but it was very hard to convince them of the things that the audience actually wanted and would resonate with them. And I started to realize actually if you flip the script and you worked with the people around the country to create the brands with them, which was the direction we were going into, which is this aspect of the digital identity changing and the fact that people don't care if it's a brand or a media company that's helping to lead their identity, they just want them to do a good job.

00:06:58Edit That's really what led me to go into this idea of consumer because I thought that it would be an incredible opportunity to bring the creator along the journey and hopefully have them rewarding the outcome and personal care is an incredibly intimate and vulnerable aspect of our daily lives. So it was none of this has been planned for me, but it's always been this idea of how do we bring people in, How do we open their minds and how do we create something that has a more conscious journey as the end result. Mm And that's when you're talking about bringing people into the journey. You're specifically talking about the collective that you built around these two consumer brands, Hickey and State of Menopause. That kind of guided you on the naming the branding, the product, all of the things. Is that right? Yeah, absolutely. I guess I'm kind of getting ahead of myself. But when we started our foe, we realized we needed people around the country to actually help because we wanted to create personal care brands with people like you and me around the country. And so I got into a car, spent a lot of nights in weird motels and hotels pre covid and went to places like Gulfport Mississippi and Detroit new Orleans and met incredible people in their homes who opened their doors to me and sat down with their friends or strangers and we would have conversations and it would start everyone with how are you doing today?

00:08:18Edit How are you feeling today? And then going into the history of their experience around body odor and smell and sweating and all of these crazy things where you're not thinking about it all day long, but it does have an impact on your daily life. And if you think about personal care is a category. You know, it's probably the first thing you interact with before, you've had a cup of coffee in the morning, if you leave the house and you forget it, you might feel a little off and you don't know why, And it sees you naked probably more than anything else in your life, and it's this incredible life habit that we've developed, and a lot of that comes from sort of fear and marketing based campaigns that started in the 40s and 50s and have never really been undone. And so there's a proper way to be had if you're actually using something on a daily basis. And so in order to actually go through that process, we wanted to have a collective as a part of it. And so we had those initial conversations and then they actually helped at all the key development stages of the brand journey, wow, that is so cool. I want to kind of backtrack just slightly to really set the scene and paint the picture for what was going on.

00:09:27Edit So you met your co founders and did you decide to leave Vice and start this new kind of umbrella company or what was the kind of early journey like there? So I met one of my co founders, Henry at actually a dinner in Can, that we were hosting my friend Laura Corinthian me and it was all about people in media and entrepreneurship that we're trying to change things up and I had never met Henry, I really didn't know that much about Glossier, to be honest. And he was sitting next to me at a dinner and we just kind of hit it off and really believed that, you know, he wanted to go into the next level of customer interaction than what Glossier had started, which was such an incredible inflection point at the time. And I believed that there was a deeper story to tell with people through that process, which was really my background in media and storytelling. And so there are two other founders brian and shop to also came from Glossier and Strategy and Technology and we thought, you know, let's give it a go. So I did meet them and then decided to leave vice, but I had very much felt inside of me that there was the next era of sort of the creator economy happening and that brands and you know, and I say brand interchangeably within media or consumer technology.

00:10:43Edit To me it's one and the same, it's a consumer, it's a person. And they're not an anonymous statistics and we're at a moment where if you want to treat someone as if they are a conglomerate, then you're missing the point. And so that was what excited me so much about kind of taking that leap of faith, got it, wow, so interesting for this kind of business model, did you need to raise capital right off the bat? Or we're just getting started really scrappy. How did it kind of work when it came to the finance side of things, of building multiple brands at once. Since we made the determination that our food would be a portfolio company, we didn't need to raise capital and the onset because for folks out there who are listening for in consumer, there are the people who are able to start it in their bedroom or the bathroom and they kind of grow it up from there and figure it out along the way. We wanted to create multiple brands at once where we knew that we would have large m okay orders, which is the amount of orders you have to make of an individual product at any given time and in order to do that and fund inventory, it can actually be pretty expensive.

00:11:47Edit So we wanted to have the ability to make those choices from the beginning and do it at a level where we could really knock things out at once. So we did make the determination to raise money at the start and what year is all of this kind of beginning in This was 2019. So in 2019 we sat down around a coffee table together and said, Okay, what does it look like? Let's give it a go and started to have those conversations and really say, you know, I think for any founder, there's kind of this moment where it's percolating in your stomach and you're not sure where, but you're starting to see the same thesis or idea bubble up in all of the conversations that you're having and this just seemed like an incredible opportunity to take that energy and direct it with like minded individuals towards something and you know, you don't know what's going to happen, but all you can do is put your best foot forward and now that I've been a founder, I always tell people, especially female founders that I know you don't have to start a company to be a founder. Anyone that is having a pivotal impact in their role in an organization is a founder.

00:12:51Edit And so it's how do you direct that energy and that passion that you have towards your own values in the outcome of your work? It's just that in this case for us, it happened to be starting a company and making products and you know, going through so many of the other experiences that most founders do have when they go through that entrepreneurial journey, that's a really cool way to think about it. I like that. So That's 2019, you've had the conversation, you've started doing all of these, you know, focus groups around the country with these women and men about sweat and smell and all these kinds of things. What then happens? Like how did you start actually building the brand and getting it to come to life in terms of like what the name was, what the visual identity was, what the language was like. So when you start to have those conversations, you start to notice trends that emerge. So some of the biggest things that started to come up was that it wasn't actually about, you know, the things that you were putting under your armpit, it was actually everywhere else on the body. So you know, stories that I would hear about boob sweat, about butt sweat, about chafing, I mean these are things that are happening to most people, 82% of people experience, shaping.

00:14:00Edit Only 12% had actually mentioned it to their friends or family, so what's going on with that disconnect and why are we having those conversations? So the brand actually emerged out of the fact that there was a need for the whole body around sweat, around de stigmatization around it and the fact that if you, if there is stigma around the topic, how do we make it fun and enjoyable to experience? So we immediately identified that we needed to have some educational content, we needed to create a brand that had a lot of color and fun and joy and we needed to make something that really worked because this is about like your everyday bodily needs and so you know from there were like, okay this is what we actually think the potential products could be based on that conversation, you know, we always say it is our phone was kind of like the Willy Wonka factory. We get to take everyone's ideas and thoughts and try to make them a reality with them. And for them it's not their job to be the experts, it's their job to be honest with us. And so then I go back to the collective and say, okay, this is what we're thinking. How do you feel about this? What do you think? Give us your feedback? We gave them product samples, We gave them different options on the brand and on the name and we went back and forth and Hickey for example, is actually, you know, when you have a hickey, you see the market is very similar to the mark you get from chafing and it also means sweat and finish.

00:15:17Edit So it was just kind of fun honestly and and they got to be a part of all of those pieces, but it is our job to take them through that process. And so we had to just kind of create checkpoints to do that. And it's funny because at that time we actually used to zoom as a tool for follow up collective meeting. So when we actually had to transition when the pandemic started, we had already kind of created that cadence and relationship with the collective to allow for that experience. So how many people were in the collective and who were these people? I mean incredibly kind amazing people. I mean the collective was hundreds of folks. We made a determination at the beginning that we really wanted it to be a small c community. We didn't want it to be so big from the beginning that I didn't have a relationship with these people or that we didn't know who the folks were that were commenting on instagram, you know, you can say you have a big instagram community, but if you don't know who, you know, beauty lover 714, is is that a real community? And what are you actually gaining from that?

00:16:19Edit So you know, holly and gulfport Mississippi or Nina in Atlanta who really was like my best kind of storyteller about her boob, sweat date horror stories and you know using baby powder all over her body, but then having a good day and wanting to take your clothes off, but then you're like covered in this white baby powder and you just feel uncomfortable. So it's just honest, phenomenal people and some of the folks who were actually faces of the campaign. So actually in Detroit Devin who actually now has gone on to found her own company called Dion Liberal with her partner, which is adapted genic brand, so which I'm really excited about. So we have founders and creators within it, but we also have people who you know work in medical care or all different types of backgrounds. Oh, that is so cool. I love that true, meaningful community vibe of what you're building and having those conversations and then pulling out those words to build a brand that is so phenomenal.

00:17:19Edit I love it. Amazing! So I want to then think about, you know, there was about a year until you launched I guess from 2019 till 2020 which is when you launched Hickey for example, you had a really memorable launch, Can you tell us about that and kind of how it came about and a bit of a breakdown on the strategy? I mean we had once in a lifetime launch because our launch coincided unintentionally with the pandemic. So it was all about being nimble and evolving with the world events at the time. And you know, we had planned to launch hickey around this time last year. So March 2020, we launched our fa on March 10 2020, which is the overall company, which is all around, you know, making it clear that the things that we're experiencing, you're not alone in, but it might not be talked about as much as other people are doing for other topics. And so anyway, so we've launched our fa, we thought we're going to launch hickey and then all of a sudden the COVID pandemic starts to overtake the country and we're looking around at each other and thinking, are we even going to be in the office together next week, what is this going to look like?

00:18:28Edit And so as things started to evolve, you know, we felt like we couldn't launch hickey as if the world had it changed and so we wanted to use the resources that we had to try and do something for good. So we realized that because we had sweat products, we had chasing products, we had, you know, an anti sweat wipe, we had the body powder or like these are actually goods that could help essential workers make them feel a little bit more comfortable during their day. So we launched Take You with a giveaway where we gave away products to first responders around the country. And that meant people that were doctors and nurses all the way to folks who worked in custodial in the facilities. And we also gave away products to people who shared a message of kindness on social because we wanted to increase, you know, the feeling and sentiment that people weren't alone and that they could be vulnerable in their experiences, which is what art is all about. And so it was really, you know, I'm so grateful to our team. I'm grateful to our collective. We didn't know how it was going to go. We decided to go ahead with the launch kind of ahead of other companies giving away a lot of products, which was really, you know what we saw a lot spring of last year.

00:19:32Edit And the reception was incredibly positive. But more than that, the body powder actually did help essential workers that were wearing those gloves all day long because it absorbs sweat and comfort. And the chase stick made it so that you know, certain things that you were wearing on your body all day long didn't have, you know, the same amount of like rubbing that you might experience otherwise. And so we were really proud of that and proud of that. The product stood up and that there was a really positive reception around them, but more just proud of the team for kind of coming together. And I believe that it really fueled them during a time of so much unknown. Mm Absolutely. How many products? I'm not sure if you're able to share, but if you are, how many products did you give away in that time? I think it ended up being like a couple 100,000 products that we give away. Yeah. We I mean we really went for it. Yeah. I mean we listen, we are a company or you know, our foe is a company that existed on the predication of interacting with real people around the country and responding to their wants and needs and understanding that if you're feeling something, there is a likelihood that someone else's too.

00:20:40Edit And when the pandemic was overtaking the country and we didn't know what would happen, the least we could do is try to support the people that were, you know, keeping us all alive and safe and that was what we felt was right. And I'm really proud that that's how we responded. Absolutely. And without sounding, you know, for lack of a better word tacky. I also imagine that truly built your customer base in a massive way. You were able to capture emails and, and build kind of your database overnight essentially. Yes. I mean, it really made it so that our first reviews and our first feedback, all of those pieces were shared from, you know, first responders, which is kind of an incredible way to actually have your site be filled. You know, it's like from people who they actually, they found out about it from a list server, they found about it from, you know, a piece of press or etcetera or we reached out to hospital. We also sent product to collective members that, you know, worked in hospitals or hospitals that they recommended or community centers that needed it for people without homes at that time.

00:21:50Edit And so, you know, it did build from a strategy standpoint, there were things that happened around email capture or revenue gains that were incredible. That wasn't what we were thinking at the time. But of course our sentiment and our strategy was always that if you are creating products with people, it's much more likely that other people will be inclined to want to purchase because they'll see themselves in that experience. But the hickey launch around Covid was not about that, but there were incredible learnings and it did give us an opportunity to fix certain things on site that we hadn't realized at the time, you know, everything for us is experimentation and growth and I would say as direct to consumer which accelerated during the pandemic continues to become a bigger portion of wallet share. You should constantly be feeling like you're evolving your work, your products, your site, same way that we get technology updates on our phone all the time, your company and your experience is not a stagnant thing. And so we really, you know, have always wanted to kind of build on them. I remember feeling really wowed when it came out and when I saw it and you know obviously I saw all of the press, I saw, I also really love the brand, you know, it was so fresh, it was different.

00:23:01Edit I felt the real nous as well, you know, with the, with the campaign imagery and things like that. I remember being just really, really wowed. I love it to talk more about the sort of the strategy side of things. What was the retention campaign coming off the back of that kind of like and how did your marketing evolved to continue driving that growth after that initial momentum? Well quickly we also developed a wipe that was also for hand sanitizing. So we evolved doing an additional product after Hickey launched because um of what was going on in the pandemic and we got feedback from our collective that that was what they wanted and needed. So that was one thing that we were able to launch afterwards, which we were proud of as well. And also donated many of those products as our, as the pandemic evolved. One thing that became clear was you don't stop sweating. So even if you were stuck in your home, you were working out, you were living your daily life, you wanted to feel like you could be pampered or take care of yourself at home. And so, you know, the Hickey products continue to be viable as a customer base during it versus, you know, some things that you maybe couldn't do during the beginning of the pandemic that we saw some things drop around from a consumer standpoint.

00:24:09Edit So for us it was honing in on okay, um, you might be working out from home and you're running in between zoom meetings and you don't have time to shower, so you can still use our, our white or body wipe, which is a phenomenal wipe and it's actually the full size that your body really needs. Not. Some tiny little like day t wipe that's pretending it's for a body that it's not. So we were really able to continue to lean into the findings that we had originally found about why the products would be viable in the first place and just share spoke stories and you know, we, we wanted to evolve as well. Like we worked with Sad Girls Club, which was a non profit organization that I'm also on the board of, that provides opportunities for people online to share their feelings and speak with licensed therapist. So we launched a program called Soul Sessions where we just gave money and said, you know, you guys host more of these. And so we were cognizant that our customers, our collective, our community, our employees were going through a lot. It was sort of an insurmountable mental time and we wanted to create viable paths for people to have different types of conversations around their bodies in mind.

00:25:14Edit So, you know, I would argue that the first five months of the pandemic was just reaction because nobody knew what was happening. So we were launching, we were responding and we were trying to sustain the business. And then after that I would say mid summer is really when we were able to say, okay, who's the customer that's actually most purchasing right now, one of the products that are doing the best, how do we lean into the chafe stick? How do we lean into the body powder? How do we lean into the body wipe, which really also showed that the differentiation of the brand was around the full body sweat, which was our thesis going into it. So that was really nice. But I would argue the first few months were really like, oh my God, we're alive during a pandemic and we did that great. You know, totally, you managed to pull it off and like keep their for the people that needed you most really, What does the brand look like today? Like where is Hickey now? What's going on in 2021? A year after the launch? I can't believe it's been a year. I was just looking at photos on my phone today of the launch last year and it just feels like forever ago.

00:26:18Edit Well, we're so proud that Hickey is now an urban outfitters and that's incredible. That was something that we talked about at the very beginning and you know, there are partners now that are making Hickey grow and just be incredibly exciting as a brand. We still offer Hickey as a bundle and if you go to the Hickey site, the way that the site allows you to explore it is also by learning about what products you can use in different parts of your body. The natural deodorant, the chafe stick and the body powder do incredibly well and we couldn't be more proud of it as a brand and for what it stands for. You know, we also, when it launched got a lot of positive feedback around the fact that it's a genderless sweat brand. If you go into the aisle, it's a very outdated notion. You look to the right and you've got these pink, smaller, you know, floral scented deodorant and you look to the left and it's these big mountain man sticks. The truth is is that's not necessary, a body is just a body and we should give it, you know, the care it deserves.

00:27:21Edit So we're very happy with the reception of hickey and how it's grown. Amazing. That's so true about the, about the aisles, Oh gosh, my goodness. So early on I touched on you having been an advisor now for Lion Tree, Can you talk about the move and the transition to what you're doing now? Well, Lion Tree is amazing because they're uh media telecom and tech advisory firm and bank. And what they do is really there at the intersection of seeing all the future trends that are happening and understand that these companies have always actually been a pipeline to allow a brand or an individual to reach a creator in the best way possible. So I've always seen them as being a really future forward way of allowing businesses to interact and grow and not just in the United States but around the world. So I was fortunate last year to start as an executive in residence with them. And now that sort of grown into being a senior adviser for their kindred media business, which is a media company and investment company that really focuses on kind of the future of best in class curators and creators and what I love about them and why I'm excited by doing that work is of course, in my mind when I was at our foes like, well what's the best way to connect with people and going through the process of fundraising and being a part of the startup world, which I would argue vice was in its own way.

00:28:45Edit But this is a whole different beast. There is still an incredible amount of work to be done for female, you know, startup founders for young startup founders for bipac startup founders and I really want to be a part of the next phase of how do we make sure that we're not missing incredible opportunities and individuals that might not still have a seat at the table and Lion Tree really is committed to that process and has made some incredible investments for people that you know, maybe a thesis might not have been recognized by someone else that they saw the value of the person in the process. So I'm excited to, you know, allow that next phase of the journey of, okay, this is a piece where we can do more connectivity between the individual and the outcome and that's what made me want to kind of inhibit that week. Wow, that sounds so exciting and very interesting. What's an example of what you're doing project wise within Kindred, are you like looking for those opportunities and going out and speaking to people or how does it work specifically?

00:29:49Edit Yeah, it's kind of a two way street, you get connected to people and then you also say, you know, who are the folks that were not being connected with that we're not talking to yet. Um I would say for anyone that you know wants to talk, my email is just a Wingrove at lyon tree dot com and they can reach out to me there. But you know for example, recently kindred made an investment in Punchbowl News which was started by jake Sherman and Anna Palmer who actually ran political playbook. It's all about just covering the U. S. Capitol as a newsletter function. But they're doing a lot of really innovative tools that bring the journalists closer to the consumer and that's been incredibly successful since launch. They've done work with Naomi's no filter which she started during pandemic where she actually has her Youtube channel where she has really intimate conversations with folks that normally wouldn't be sharing information materials. And Naomi's obviously doing a lot of work in the media and business space as well. And so we like to think who is sort of best in class at what they do, how can we help support them and then how can we use those cross functional conversations as a way for people to find other talent or information kind of like a new newspaper that's going on.

00:30:56Edit And so some of it's a little bit proprietary and I can't talk about. But those are a few recent things that we have seen. And then I also have a production company called cultures last stand. And within that we will be giving a percentage of every revenue that comes in to that company on each project to a different creator to support a project that they're working on. So I'm really about the like up cycle aspect of the economy. I think there's enough to go around. I don't think we all have to hold it in at once and I do think sometimes when founders are starting, especially female founders, they really feel like this is their only shot. And I just want to say that most men don't feel that way. They're like, this is my first shot, this is my second shot, this is my 15th shot and the next one, I'll get it right or I'll evolve and I'll learn. So I do hope anyone, you know that's listening does take away. This is not your only chance if your business is evolving or changing or if you need to take a different action. There's a million opportunities to keep learning and growing and there's a lot of money out there together, love that, love the money to get for sure.

00:32:04Edit On the back of that. What is your key piece of advice for women who have a big idea and want to start their own business? Well to women that want to start their own business or have an idea they're sitting on, I would say nothing starts with no, so don't tell yourself no or if you hear a few knows they're not the only thinkers out there so keep going and then I would really sit with yourself and say why is this exciting me? What is the most exciting value proposition out of this? And hold on to that and remember that you are going to have to say your idea a million times. It's the same thing if you have a pet that you've named or partner and you hear their stories over and over again. This is something that becomes a part of the fabric of your life. And if telling that story a million times doesn't inspire you or excite you every time I would think about if you actually want to do it and then I would be vulnerable and cold email, cold call reach out to people, they will respond, they might take a minute, it might lead you down a different path than you expected.

00:33:12Edit So it's it's really about harnessing your why and then saying like what is my comfort level of vulnerability and then I would say second, what are your strengths and what are the areas of growth you have because no one should be good at everything. You just need to know what you're best at and then figure out how to fill the things that you need support around. And I think that that's actually something that sometimes can be harder for women are different genders because you already feel like you have less of a shot But that is something that's really critical, like I know for myself, I'm not as strong around operations and finance, I can turn on that brain, but it's not my number one brain. And that's okay. And so in all the projects that I do, I work with people who are number one in that brain and they help support me and I support them and that allows for a better outcome and chance of success because I can be vulnerable and say them. Mm Yeah, that's amazing. Thank you so much. I love that. At the end of every episode, I asked women the same six quick questions to, you know, be able to look back over time and see if there are any trends or anything any interesting, you know, insights that come out of it.

00:34:22Edit So, some of this we may have covered, but we'll go through it again. Question number one is, what's your why? Why do you do what you do? I do what I do because I believe that people don't get enough of a fair shake and I want to share the stories that give them a chance to shine. Amazing Question number two is what do you think was the number one marketing moment that made the business pop with Hickey? I would argue that Hickey's uh thesis that responded so well in the marketplace was that we worked with people to actually build and make the products and we believed in the notion of a collective before a lot of people were harping on the idea of community or understanding how much individual identity, you know, was representative and necessary today in marketing, but also actually in your core values as a business. Mm So true Question # three is where do you hang out to get smarter? What are you reading or listening to? That is really great right now. Well, I'm a big podcast fan. I love still processing. I listened up first every morning.

00:35:30Edit I'm always trying to listen to different things like radio lab or my partner, she's like a podcast freak. So big there. I'm on clubhouse a lot right now, which I probably sound like a trope saying, but I am and I'm reading a book right now actually called It didn't start with you, which is actually all about inherited family trauma and I think that it's really important for all of us. You know, there are so many conversations going on right now, whether it's the incredible violence and racism that's happening with the asian community or some of the things that we've seen around George Floyd over the last year. Like this is a moment of change and transparency for us as a country and as a world and as we even think about our own individual growth, there's just so much that came before us. So I really enjoy reading about that and continuing to learn in that space as well. I'm going to link that in the show notes for anyone who wants to check it out, I certainly do really good question number four is how do you win the day? What are your am or PM rituals that keep you feeling happy or motivated and successful?

00:36:34Edit Well I actually try to do monthly goals and my best friend esta is the person that I share them with and we actually try to motivate each other, which is really nice to have a buddy even if sometimes it's not your partner that's trying to help you achieve those things. Every morning I wake up, I make tea, I go on a walk and then I either make coffee or buy it and I write down a really intense list of all the things that I need to do that day. Um I see those types of like worry moments or you know when you're getting in your head as actually it can be fuel to get a lot done is just get out of your head and put it on paper. So I do that and then I just kind of sit down and I plow, I'm definitely a morning thinker. So I really prefer to have morning time where I'm creating or working and then my mid day and afternoons are much better for phone calls and meetings. I love the accountability buddy. That's great. I need one of them eat it. Yeah, everybody does. Question Number five is if you only had $1,000 left in your business bank account, where would you spend it? Oh my God.

00:37:36Edit Well I think that should be the same question of a few $1000 in your life bank account. Probably on my team. You're never as strong as if you're not taking care of your team for sure. And last question question # six is how do you deal with failure? What's your mindset and approach? I have thought a lot about failure over the last few years, mainly because I think I've also always thought about impostor syndrome and I think it's really important to reorient in the same way that you think about, what does it mean to be a founder in your own role? Um If you replace the word failure with um like comfort or growth or change, I think it's actually a really important mindset Reframing because if something didn't work, it doesn't mean that it's a failure. It's actually like what can you take out of it? That turns into something else. Even if you look at recent successes that are the big successes, we see that wasn't that person, that person's first try, it's usually their sixth try or their 10th try and I can tell you very much on a content creation side.

00:38:42Edit Your first cut, your first take your first line of copy is never your best outcome. So was that first line of failure? No, it was a creative brainstorm. It was the work you're doing. It's everybody gets a shot and more than one shot at life and deserves that. They deserve that shot. So my take on failure, which is evolving like I'm not perfect is Yeah, okay, get up again tomorrow. Like, let's see what you got, you know, keep on learning, keep on growing. I love it. I love it. Thank you so much for taking the time to be on female startup Club today. I have loved chatting with you and learning all about you're incredible life and all these fun things you've got going on. I'm super excited to keep watching. What's next? My gosh, thank you so much for having me and for creating the space for so many founders and curious people to be able to grow their practice.



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